Suspension Brakes 1st Gen Coil-over suggestions

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by agranger, Dec 15, 2010.

  1. KC Jr 54

    KC Jr 54 New Member

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    Yes, the helper springs are another unique trait to the TSW specs.

    As far as the settling, did you replace the bushings in the back ? Those will allow A LOT of additional sagging over time.
     
  2. Rally

    Rally New Member
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    I've always been curious as to why helpers were included....especially on the rear. I've never encountered enough droop in the rear to necessitate helper springs...unless they went with shorter rear springs for some reason :confused5: Anyone have any insight there?
     
  3. agranger

    agranger MINI of the Month June 2009
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    #43 agranger, Feb 22, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011
    On a more general level, I'd love to know what helper springs do... why choose to use 'em in the first place. In my current install, they seem to be 99% compressed when just sitting in my garage.

    I took this pic last night and you can see that the helper spring at the top is compressed and this wheel is off of the ground.

    EDIT: Duh... Google it first!

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    Just a question here.....
    Looking at Rally's pic, the helper springs are on the bottom of the fronts. But on agranger's install they are on the tops of the rears. Can they be switched around like that?
     
  5. agranger

    agranger MINI of the Month June 2009
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    That's the way they came installed in the box. I took the bolts off of the top of the hat to install on the stock bushing and upper mount, but I never got the springs off.

    Given the nature of springs, I wouldn't think that it would matter... they are going to equalize the compression based on the force of the spring, no matter what direction they point (given that the hats and connecting hardware aren't direction dependent), but that's the theoretical physicis in me talking.... frequently that's far removed from practical application. :D
     
  6. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    So what is the decision point that determines if the helper springs go on the fronts or the rears?
     
  7. sooper_cooper

    sooper_cooper New Member

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    Mine (KW V2) have helper springs on the top both front and rear. Keep in mind that mine go on the R56 while agranger has an R53, so possibly that's the difference.

    To my knowledge the TSW spec'd KWs come with these helper springs on both the V2 and the V3 models as standard.
     
  8. sooper_cooper

    sooper_cooper New Member

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    This is what mine look like. KW V2, TSW version (all KW parts though), for the R56. Front are on the outside and rears are in the inside.
     

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  9. KC Jr 54

    KC Jr 54 New Member

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    Personally, the the helper springs make a lot of sense for a car that sees a lot of street duty. I know little about what a spring goes through on the track, so i just dont know.

    My personal car tri-pods a lot all over town, and every other driveway i seem to pull into. That includes the front and rear of the car w/ only one tire on the ground.

    The definition Aaron pulled up about Helper springs sums it up pretty well over-all.
     
  10. agranger

    agranger MINI of the Month June 2009
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    OK... I think I've got my ride height rough set... I've got about 1 finger width between the top of the tire and the bottom of the arch. The bottom of the arch is 24.75" off of the ground. This is definately not LOW, but is lower than stock and is more practical for my track, trailer-towing and daily driver use (giving up the cool, ultra-lowered look).

    My front adjustment rings are set about 12 turns up from the bottom of the threads. The rears are only 2-3 turns down from the upper-most position.
     
  11. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    It doesn't really matter if helpers are on top or bottom as far as I know...different companies do it differently. It can be helpful to position them one way or another if you are using a strap wrench or something.

    On KW's it's a low rate tender. A bit more rate than a true helper that's really flimsy and if you sneeze at it you'll lose it. Same idea, but when the shock is extended you have a slightly more progressive rate. But it's not a big difference. When they're closed it's just the rate of the main spring.

    - Andrew
     
  12. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

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    Helper springs have no affect on the spring rate or ride. They are there so that when the shock or strut is fully extended the springs do not come off the perch. If you did not have the helper springs the springs would cause a noise when the car is cornered hard.
     
  13. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    Right. :) The Hyperco or Eibach true helpers are reeeally thin and crush very flat very easily.

    Swift and KW's are more like a low rate tender, though you can get some with some real rate to them.

    - Andrew
     
  14. Rally

    Rally New Member
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    Even at full tri-pod the average coilover MINI wouldn't have a problem with the rear spring becoming unloaded. That's why I'm confused by the inclusion of helper springs. Any coilover equipped MINI I've seen still has the rear springs loaded even at full droop. :confused5: You'd have to be running super short springs, or the perches spun ALL the way down before you'd have problems with the springs becoming unloaded.

    Maybe it's just because I've only worked with shortened bodied struts, but even the KW's should have a pretty limited amount of rear droop due to their length.
     
  15. agranger

    agranger MINI of the Month June 2009
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    I've got to admit that these are the quietest coil-overs I've ever heard. I haven't been in a TON of cars w/ them, but I was expecting a bit more rattle over hard bumps.

    Rally: You are right about not expecting much droop from a tri-pod. That's exactly how I took this pic... it's a shot of the right rear suspension and you can see that the helper is almost fully compressed. The right rear tire was completely off the ground so that I could get up under there to add a few turns and get a bit more clearance.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. agranger

    agranger MINI of the Month June 2009
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    A pic from this afternoon. I think this is my final height! I've got a nice, even 1-finger of clearance all the way around.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Rally

    Rally New Member
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    That's sitting nice :Thumbsup:
     
  18. sooper_cooper

    sooper_cooper New Member

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    Wow, looks great! Love where you've set the ride height. :Thumbsup:

    I hope to have mine installed next week.
     
  19. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    I don't think the helper springs are there as much for the cornering, but for when the rear or front of the car comes off the ground. When a car goes tripod, the sway bar is severely limiting the drop of the wheel that is in the air. When the whole rear end, or front end, is off the ground the suspension will fully extend with no restriction except for the dampers and springs. Then the helper springs will keep the springs set in the perches.
     
  20. Rally

    Rally New Member
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    Right, I understand the purpose of helper springs, it's just that, in my experience the rear MINI suspension doesn't have enough droop for the spring to unseat from the perch.

    In the picture he posted, the suspension is completely hanging and his helper spring is still entirely compressed. That means the helper spring serves no purpose in his application.

    Again, I could be missing something somewhere, but I've never run into a MINI that needed helpers in the rear.
     

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