Suspension Brakes 1st Gen Coilover vs Spring/Shock/Camberplate

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by MrBlah, Jul 13, 2016.

  1. MrBlah

    MrBlah Member

    Jun 19, 2015
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    Car is a 05 R53 and will basically be dedicated to HPDE, pulley/injector/tune/brakes/suspension.

    any thoughts on these 3 choices I'm a beginner at tracks and can probably swap out suspension in a year or two once I get more track time

    1. at 900$ megans race they come with camber plates, these have 7k front and 6k rear

    2. at 1200$ swift-spec-r + koni yellow + ireland camber plates, these have a .75/.5" drop and I think 5k & 5.5k rates?

    3. at 1800$ BC custom setup from collin?

    all 3 of these get good reviews, are there any pro's/cons to coilovers vs springs/strut/camberplate?

    now the wrench in the decision, if I'm not happy with the koni setup I could put those shocks in my JCW autocross car, they are d-stock legal.

    I will be sleeping on this a couple days then making an order
     
  2. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    I ran swift spec-r with Bilstein B-8's and vorschlag plates for a few years. I loved this as a fast mountain street setup, with occasional HPDE.
    Upgraded to Colin's custom coils with 7k front / 8k rear, with Colin's camber/caster plates and they were VASTLY superior. Night and day.
    Then upgraded again to 10k front/rear... and the car is insanely awesome as a 80% track / 20% mountain twisties car.

    You get what you pay for, generally. If you're really building it as an HPDE car, I'd spring for Colin's coils. Being able to fine tune ride height and corner balance matters A LOT on a car you're building primarily for the track. If you do the suspension right the first time, you won't need to buy it again. And this setup is plenty good for the vast majority of people, vs. the more expensive coilovers. Oh yeah... and having the added caster on the track is a great, great thing.
     
  3. MrBlah

    MrBlah Member

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    10k both ends is not too stiff? I will rarely drive this car on the street, basically just to the track

    I have the jcw dedicated to autocross/street
     
  4. MrBlah

    MrBlah Member

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    do you do any of the tarheel events? Or nasa? I'll be at tarheel autocross this weekend and nasa @ nccar early sept. Also might do the night event next thursday 150 $ for 4 track sessions is a killer deal at CMP
     
  5. myles2go

    myles2go Active Member

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    Like Paul said, go with Colin's coil-overs and add the the caster/camber plates if you can. It's hard to beat this setup. Talk to Colin about spring rates.
     
  6. MrBlah

    MrBlah Member

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    Might have scored a set of kW v3 cheap, will see if it pans out
     
  7. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    Plan on buying a set of Swift Springs because KW Springs Suck.
    I know since I have KW's and the springs only lasted a year or so.
    I replaced them with Swift springs and it is like night and day.
     
  8. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    I'm loving the 10k springs front and rear. Most people don't run enough spring on the rear on MINIs, according to Colin... and the force is with him, on this particular topic.

    I DID find a situation where they were a bit much, on the street... on an uphill off-camber reducing radius sweeper, with a big bump in the middle... unsettled the car and oversteered. But on the track they were absolute bliss.

    I do all the THSSC VIR and CMP events. I haven't been doing autocross, but may start just for fun (won't be competitive as the car will class to SM).
     
  9. ColinGreene

    ColinGreene Well-Known Member
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    Now that I have seen this thread the PM you sent me makes a lot more sense.
    Anyway I guess ill have to wait for you to get back to me so i can give you good answers.
    So the thing that i find most intersting about this is that I have become todays "Expensive" Shock. And i dont mean to put that out there in a disparaging or to be condicending to buyers more a observation about how the market has changed.
    It tried to offer something best bang for the buck. I litterally cant do anything better for less money.
    I could do better for more money but I dont think the market is there.
    As far as set up, I like to know what tyres you run how you use it and things of that nature.
    I'm lucky in that I sell enough of these to get a grip on what to do with the set up but not enough that I dont get to have a hand in making the set up work.
    I do like the Swift Bistein set up its fantastic but once you experience the transformitive nature of real camber plates and shocks its no comparison.
    really its all about intended use and budget.
    To do the springs and dampers with camber plates you are not far of of what coilovers would cost you anyway.
     
  10. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    ^THIS

    There are many levels of and goals for suspension setups.

    Cheapest lowering coilovers so you live the stance/slammed lyfestyle? That's not what Colin sells.

    His setup is designed to get in the same performance ballpark as higher-end track coils (in the $3-4K+ range) at a much lower price point.
    But if you have $7-8k to spend... you can certainly do that and get even better, I hear.

    As Colin suggests, tire compound, setup (e.g. how much camber and caster you run), corner weights, aero / downforce, how you drive the car, experience level and car control skills... all play into the optimal spring rates and damping settings... It's not a one-size-fits-most approach, when you get to the point of optimizing the car for track performance. Best to actually talk through it with him.
     
  11. MrBlah

    MrBlah Member

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    #11 MrBlah, Jul 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2016
    I got lucky, just bought some used KW V3's have ebaich camber plates, and I need to get springs for them

    running RE71R now, will probably go to non DOT tires next year will be adding front & rear aero
     
  12. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    Orrrrrrrr you can buy some used stuff with unknown performance characteristics, and hope that somehow someone can recommend and supply springs that will work with your used struts and meet your expectations and not somehow make the person who sells you the springs look bad because you didn't end up liking what you got... when the person selling the springs had NO control over how used struts of a different brand perform...
     
  13. MrBlah

    MrBlah Member

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    Why don't you give me a ride along in your car so I can see how it handles
     
  14. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    Anytime! Where do you live?
     
  15. MrBlah

    MrBlah Member

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    Just south of pittsboro there are some fun roads around here
     
  16. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    Make sure you wear some adult Depends because you may shat yourself riding in Pauls car if he pushes it. :lol:

    Oh and bring a barf bag just in-case. :ihih:
     
  17. MrBlah

    MrBlah Member

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    I took 1st in novice saturday and sunday, first year of autocross now that I've locked up novice trophy for the year I'm switching to d-street where I'll get my ass handed to me, if I never improve on the local fast guy (Brice) I might switch back and forth to STX or maybe some nt01's in DSP with this track mini to get used to more grip/speed. Right now I'm about 1.5 seconds off his pace he is usually top 10 raw & pax in his 06 JCW

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z4W1KUU8gI"]LapTimerOverlay 20160717 081005 - YouTube[/ame]
     
  18. ColinGreene

    ColinGreene Well-Known Member
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    Thats not a 08 1 series.
     
  19. MrBlah

    MrBlah Member

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    Yah I forgot to tell app which car I was racing, had it set to the 135i from last event
     

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