Most liked posts in thread: DeltaWing in 2012 LeMans

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  1. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    #128 Steve, Mar 28, 2012
    For a number of reasons -- I don't know them all but weight limits are definitely on the list -- it doesn't qualify to run in any current class at Le Mans. It's true, if there were friendly weight classifications anyone could build a light car and run.

    The reason organizers are letting this one run outside class as a technology demonstrator is it's more than just a featherweight car. There are a number of differences in approach -- some of them pretty obvious -- the sum of which add up to something they were led to believe has potential to not only demonstrate prototype performance using half the fuel but also odd enough in design to attract attention and entertain and with an unconventional, seemingly illogical approach guaranteed to cause controversy and stir up even more interest.

    The Le Mans folks have been pushing for more alternative energy and green energy and hybrids and energy reduction overall for a few years now so it's no surprise that a claim of prototype performance on half the fuel made it to the top of the experimental technology demonstrator list. Throw in the oddness of it and it's sure to attract attention...and it has.
     
  2. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    #129 Minidave, Mar 28, 2012
    OK, I guess my point is you don't have to have a pointy nose to get good mileage and go fast - but weighing half what the other cars do sure helps!

    I'm all for innovation and good design, what I guess I'm reacting to is Nissan touting this as such a leap forward, when what it really is is an exemption to the rules.......

    Give Audi, Porsche and the others the same weight limit and 4 cyl engine requirement and see what they come up with!

    I agree with RKW, racing a new design is always fun - just don't try to tell me it's better by hiding the real truth - it's the weight that's really making it efficient, not the nose.
     
  3. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    #130 Nathan, Mar 28, 2012
    The nose doesn't hurt. The aero cross section is much smaller so it's less air to push away.

    With all the formulaic racing we have these days it sure is great to see something different being tried. We just have to filter out some of the Nissan PR Machine hype.
     
  4. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
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    #131 Redbeard, Mar 28, 2012
    Getting closer to this:

    [​IMG]



    Just sayin'... :D
     
  5. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    #133 Minidave, Mar 28, 2012
    Yes, I've seen the tires....

    I also saw the tiny tires used on front of the UOP Shadow Can Am cars and the 4 front tires used on the Tyrell....

    My point is the same - the weight is the key here.

    Yes the aero plays a part, but my guess is not as big a part as people think.

    Here's where I'm coming from.....at one point they ran a current 917K Porsche against a NASCAR for top speed around Talledega. Everyone assumed the Porsche with it's small, low frontal area and swoopy looks and huge HP would run off and hide from the old tech pushrod, carburetted non turbo'd engined boxy old stockcar.

    Except it didn't, the NASCAR was faster......it ain't what you have, it's what you do with it.
     
  6. rkw

    rkw Well-Known Member

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    #134 rkw, Mar 28, 2012
    For DeltaWing, the shape is important because they halved the horsepower (only 300 hp) and need the aero to run at higher speeds.
     
  7. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

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    #135 CarlB, Mar 29, 2012
    We will have to see how fast it is at LeMans. The builders says that if you half the weight and half the drag you need half the power. Total weight affects acceleration. Where the weight is located, the amount of down force, are big influences on handling characteristics and grip. Weight is an issue on the cars performance, but aerodynamic drag is very important on race tracks like LeMans. The strait at LeMans is a mile long. To run competitive times it needs more than to be able to put the power down early off the corner and good acceleration. To achieve speeds similar to the prototypes they will have to have low drag.
     
  8. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

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    #136 CarlB, Mar 29, 2012
    What I remember was Mark Donohue going to Talladega because AJ had set a record there. I did not think a stock car had gone faster. Here is what I found.
    • March 24, 1970: Buddy Baker, driving the Chrysler Engineering #88 Dodge Charger Daytona, officially becomes the first driver in NASCAR history to break the 200 mph barrier by turning a lap of 200.447 mph (322.588 km/h). This was also a World Record at the time for any vehicle on a closed course. It was achieved using official NASCAR Scoring and Timing equipment.
    • August, 1974: A.J. Foyt tests an Indy car at a speed of 217.854 mph (350.602 km/h).
    • August 9, 1975: Mark Donohue sets a closed-course world record in a Porsche 917-30 at 221.160 mph. It would stand as a world record for four years, and as a United States record until 1986.
    • April 30, 1987: Bill Elliott sets the all-time NASCAR qualifying record, winning the pole for the Winston 500 at a speed of 212.809 mph (342.483 km/h) (44.998 seconds). The record still stands due strictly to the use of the carburetor restrictor plate, mandated after the 1987 season.
    • November 1986: Rick Mears broke the US closed course record at Michigan in a Indy Car with a speed of 233.934.
    Drag goes up at the square of the speed.
     
  9. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    #137 minimark, Mar 29, 2012
    Actually in a Road & Track comparison for a cover story back in the 80s at the Ohio Transportation Research Center, Tim Richmond in his Winston Cup Folger's Monte Carlo ran 240mph besting the 220 mph speed that Al Holbert's Porsche GTP could manage.

    The Monte Carlo was a brick, but a very aero dynamic brick, where as the Porsche was held back by too much downforce and it's resultant drag, even though it was lighter and more powerful.....
     
  10. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    #138 Minidave, Mar 29, 2012
    That musta been the one I was thinking of - thanks!
     
  11. Johngo

    Johngo New Member
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    #139 Johngo, Mar 30, 2012
    I wonder what the outcome would have been if ONE corner was input into the equation... :ihih:
     
  12. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    #140 minimark, Mar 30, 2012
    It was a top speed contest not about lap times but the track is a circuit not a straight line., albeit a large sweeping circuit. Worth noting that neither car was specially prepared for the contest other than simple stuff done on site such as taping up stuff. Both cars were both basically in racing spec.

    The results came as a surprise to most everyone... Lol
     
  13. Steve

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    #141 Steve, Mar 30, 2012
    Interesting words after the Sebring test from the second driver, Michael Krumm:
     
  14. ScottinBend

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    #142 ScottinBend, Mar 30, 2012
    Gearing had a lot to do with the speeds too.
     
  15. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    #143 Steve, Mar 31, 2012
  16. Crashton

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    #144 Crashton, Mar 31, 2012
    Those short wheelbase altered dragsters have a hard time with no turns. Looking at what the car was & the course it was inevitable what was about to happen. Hope the driver was OK. Just nuts.... :crazy:
     
  17. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    #145 ScottinBend, Mar 31, 2012
    LOL....didn't even try to go for the brakes!
     
  18. Nathan

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    #146 Nathan, Apr 12, 2012
    First in a series. Nissan is creating a series of videos on the DeltaWing.

    Nissan launched its innovative, experimental Le Mans project last month - the Nissan DeltaWing. This is the first in a series of 'behind-the-scenes' films that charts the development of the car and the ground-breaking technology with which Nissan aims to revolutionise motorsport. Part 1 -- proving it works in the wind tunnel.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mqA-c6FP4&hd=1]Creating the Nissan DeltaWing. Video 1 - Wind tunnel testing - YouTube[/ame]
     
  19. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    #147 Steve, Apr 12, 2012
    I hope the subsequent videos are more informative and interesting than this one.

    From Highcroft racing:

    "New episodes of the film series will be launched roughly every two weeks between now and Le Mans and will culminate in a TV documentary, which will air after the endurance classic in June."​

    and

    "The first video in the series highlights the wind tunnel work on the car, carried out at the Windshear facility in Charlotte, North Carolina.

    Ben Bowlby said: “We’ve had the Nissan film crew following our every move throughout the development of the car over the past few months and this will give the fans a great insight into the creation of the Nissan DeltaWing.

    “At first it was a bit strange to be filmed “reality TV†style as we worked to create the car, but after a while the camera crew were just part of the team.

    “The finished product will be brilliant for the fans to get to see what goes on behind the scenes in the creation a project as unique as the Nissan DeltaWing.

    “The wind tunnel work in particular was a key component of the project. The data we had from the scale model development and what our computer simulations told us showed we were moving in the right direction.

    “Getting the full-sized car in the wind tunnel really cemented that. In fact, the final results actually exceeded our expectations.â€

    Darren Cox, General Manager, Nissan in Europe, said: “As soon as Nissan’s involvement with the DeltaWing project began and long before it was announced, we wanted to make sure that the challenge of bringing such a revolutionary car to the race track was properly recorded."​
     
  20. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    #148 Steve, Apr 18, 2012
    Comments from the drivers after their first day of testing in Europe:

    MARINO FRANCHITTI

    “Mother nature really did us a favor today because it was great to get another run in the wet.

    “I basically got monsoon conditions and Michael got to try the car on a drying track. It was a very good test for the car and the tires.

    “The day allowed us to try the wet tires in a real world situation – we didn’t have to wet the track at all, it was a proper wet, rainy day.

    “The day has really given us some important data and provided Michelin with some clear direction for future development.

    “The engine was great, the gearbox was great – it was a proper testing day when we were really able to get down to business doing damper work, brake work – all in all it was a very positive test and we’re now very much looking forward to the next run.”

    MICHAEL KRUMM

    “The guys have done a great job with the car since the Sebring tests. Even though the conditions were quite damp today and we really didn’t get a proper run in the dry, I am really pleased with how the car felt.

    “We’ve made some changes to the car including the steering which is now a lot better. Everyone was wondering before the car ran whether it would turn – in fact it probably turned too well and we have made some improvements in that area.

    “It is great to kick off the European testing because Le Mans is looming fast. Sebring was obviously a lot warmer and sunnier, but the conditions we had today could be exactly like you face at Le Mans some times.

    “Getting that wet weather running under our belt - working with Michelin on the tires - we now know what to expect.”

    Click here for pics from the test.
     
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