Most liked posts in thread: Dragon Safety

Indeed. Not only do you need to keep it on your side of the double yellow.... you need to be prepared to see folks who DO NOT DO SO suddenly occupying your lane at any moment. The number of times I've seen motorcyclists cornering with their helmets hanging right where my A-pillar should be....

The Dragon (and Hellbender) have claimed more than their fair share of MINIs. They eat one or several every year. It is NOT fun to have your car shipped home from there on a flatbed, and figure out how you and all your stuff are going to get home as well. Assuming you're healthy enough to be caring about stuff like that after totalling your MINI.

Also... left hand turns into Fontana Village can be treacherous. minimark and I were right behind a guy who got T-boned last year when he turned right in front of an oncoming car - never saw them coming. There are cars and motorcycles and bicycles and pedestrians swarming EVERYWHERE up there. Stay alert at all times.

 

Amen, brother, amen. Main rule: Don't drive oblivious, this is truly a challenging road.

SPEED: You will NOT set the speed record on the Dragon, especially with 1100 Mini people driving 700+ Minis that weekend. Please do not try. It's actually more fun to drive it at, say 7-8/10ths and watch your line.

LINE: The proper line, by the way, is to not, ever-ever-ever, touch the yellow line. Stay wide, apex late-to-very-late and only when you can see the end of the curve, and apex by not *quite* touching the yellow - if even that close. Early apex can mean death, and I'm really not kidding.

COURTESY TO LOCALS: These people are simply bringing kids to daycare, getting groceries, and really don't need your Mini up their trunklid. They "get it", though, and will generally move over if you treat 'em nice. Be courteous! By the way, locals DO know we're coming, they look forward to it, and the moneys donated to the Graham County Food Bank are well publicized - so we have a pretty good reputation so far. PLEASE don't be "that guy" who blows it.

FRIGGIN' PAY ATTENTION! Look way up beyond your bonnet lid to the next few corners, and be prepared for some strange things coming the other way. Trucks, trikes, trailers, BICYCLES, runners, BEAR, deer, turkeys squirrels, ducks, geese, wrecks, crotchrockets, cruisers scraping their side rails at 23MPH - ALL have been spotted on the Dragon and surrounding roads.

Note that bikers can sometimes have their bike on the proper side of the road, but their helmet right about at your driver's-side mirror. Want a good scare? Imagine some biker's face hitting your mirror at a closing speed of 70+ MPH. Yeah, that'll do it.

This is FUN, but this is SERIOUS fun - lackadaisical driving gets rewarded by folks pointing and laughing (at best), or an ambulance (or hearse) ride at worst. Be careful out there!

 

Couldn't agree more with what everyone has said so far.

Clean runs will be few and far between this year. If you want to push your driving skills, go do an autocross event. Watch our speed and stay on your side of the road.

Please do not push the person in front of you to drive faster then they are. Everyone has their own comfort zone. Trying to make someone drive beyond theirs is going to end poorly for everyone.

If you a person being pushed from behind, stick to your comfort zone and just pull over at your earliest convenience.

We'll have a safety flyer in every registration bags and several safety banners around the village as a reminder.

So PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, let's be safe this year!!!!

 

Let me explain what a late apex is. Before I start, I want to emphasize that this tread is full of good advice, please take it to heart. An apex in the context I used it before is a racing term, but everyone who drives around a corner has an apex. Stay in your lane, but that still allows your car to move from side to side in the lane. The apex is simply the inside point of the corner the car touches. If you are going around a right hand turn, and you want the most control, you start on the left edge of your lane. You turn into the corner and you touch the inside edge of the road (apex). You then reach the outside of you lane at the end of the turn. The terms racers use are turn in point, apex, and corner exit (some call it track out). If you think about it, what we are doing is minimizing the amount of steering wheel movement All of this adds up to the line. You want to turn the wheel on turn in and hold that position until corner exit. You start at the outside of the edge of the lane touch the inside and complete the corner on the outside edge. What I have just described is called the natural line. It is also the shortest distance around a corner. It is often not the fastest or safest. A late apex means apexing or reaching the inside point of the turn further around the corner than the middle of the turn. To accomplish a late apex you must drive deeper into the turn before turning in and turn sharper. A late apex is safer because you aren’t going as fast into the corner. You can come off the corner faster (I do not recommend it on the Dragon) because the car is lined up with where you want to go from the apex out. The natural line is faster into the corner, but if you have more speed than you should, you will go off the road on exit. Indianapolis is an example of a track that is fastest using a natural line. That track has long sweeping turns. There aren’t any sweeping turns on the Dragon. The other advantages on the dragon of a late apex are: going slower into the corner you can see what is coming. That is always an issue. There is a lot of satisfaction in finding and mastering the best line. If you have done it correctly your car will be lined up strait coming out of the corner. Most people turn in way to early. They either have to make steering corrections, or slow down on exit. Slow down and try to master the line by using a late apex.

 

At a MSSD several years back, I had the displeasure of seeing a dead motorcyclist on the side of the Dragon after being run off by two cars side by side.....

If you see someone crossing the line, give them hell for it.:banghead:

 

Besides coming back home alive, another reason to keep your wits about you...

Not being pointed out in the inevitable post MOTD Dragon Shame thread!

 

In my and minimarks experience, MOTD clean runs are more likely following a major landslide.

Or after midnight. Or maybe before 8AM.

 

I fear my good friend, that, that run was a once in a lifetime event.... Will be a cherished memory till my end day!!

 

It can be dangerous. It does lend itself to higher speeds for those who have a lot of experience on that road, typically longer sight lines, etc. No excuse to do anything stupid or unsafe. But, for those in search of a bit more speed, that's a better place for it than on the Dragon. But always know what your car's and your own limits are, and stay WELL within them.

I highly encourage new or less aggressive drivers on Hellbender to be on the lookout for traffic in your rearview mirror as well as to your front. And if you get someone behind you who is obviously more comfortable with taking that road at a higher speed, slow down and let them pass. There are plenty of areas with sufficiently long sight lines to do that safely, as long as everyone cooperates.

Especially let them by if it's a blue cabrio with red/white/blue stripes and driving lights in your rearview.
:devil:

Mountain speak: "that peckerwood is all over my rear bumper" = "hey, I think I should let that peckerwood behind me go on around"

 

Yes there a are turn outs, BUT they are not very big. On one run last year I wanted to pull over and let an "S" go by, HOWEVER they would not get off my bumper, so I could slow down and pull over. Pushing someone down the Dragon is also NOT a good idea. They will pull over, or they won't and riding their rear end is not going to change that. :nonod:

Jim

 

Sounds like they needed a can of whop-ass opened on them at the end of the run! Just remember if you push someone may just push back so don't be a peckerwood!

Safety First.....

 

Well, let me explain it this way. This is my third trip to the dragon, but I don't know where all the turn outs are by memory. One has to concentrate on the road itself, even if they are not the hot shot you are, which means a turn out can be missed. I will find one and certainly get out of the way, just give me some room to do so, is all I ask. On the other hand, if a car does refuse to pull over, what good does riding their bumper do, other then set up a possible wreck? Just asking.

Jim

 

I just got back from a weekend at the Dragon and I can only second all of this. This Dragon is huge fun, but you have to be aware of all of the dangers it presents.

 

Yes, we are! :cornut:

 

I have been going to the Dragon for the last 5 years. Someone wrecks a car every year. The thread has lots of good advice. Here is my two cents: The Dragon is as dangerous as any road I have ever driven. It is also an absolute blast to drive. I have not driven many public roads where you can develop a rhythm similar to a race track. You can test your skills and get the same satisfaction within the limits required because it is a very dangerous public road. Look as far in front of you as possible. Don’t drive into the corners hard. Most of them you can’t see around anyway. That way you can make corrections for what might be coming. Concentrate on the line and zip off the corner. The Dragon rewards a very late apex. I can’t think of a turn on the entire thing that doesn’t. If it were a race track it would be faster to go in slow and come out fast. Don’t carry much speed down the straits. If it was a race track I do not believe anyone’s brakes would stand the full length of the dragon. If you drive moderately hard middle off the corner you will have a blast. You might also learn something about overdriving. Slow in on a lot of turns is faster. Race car drivers talk about overdriving a corner. If you overdrive this place you could get killed or kill someone.

 

Truth be told, think of it as a road with other people on it. That is what it is, Mom's & Dad's driving the kids somewhere & locals going about their daily business. It is not a race track & should not be thought of as one. Of all the people that have crashed on the dragon I'd hazard a guess that most all of them confused it with a race track.

Have fun be safe....

 

The white line is just as important and the yellow lines...... if you drop off onto the dirt there it sucks you up to the wall and up and over.

Had a friend a few years back flip her Sky and it landed up-side-down because of this. She made it out ok amazingly, but her car was totaled.

So respect the Dragon and drive the right way.... not like you are on time trials.

 

In as few words as possible: Stay on the OUTSIDE of the corner until you can see ALL THE WAY through it.

You will start your turn at about the same point, just not turn as sharply (stay away from the "inside line").

If you can't see through the corner, STAY OUTSIDE. I can be heard on in-car video saying "STAY OUT STAY OUT!" (even to myself!) because the tendency is to "cut" the corner too early - to "dive for the apex" - and if you dive too early, any excess speed will throw you out the back end of the corner on the wrong side of the line(s). Staying OUT also gives you a better sight line through the corner AND keeps you further away from fools coming the other way who don't drive within their skillset.

As you get more familiar, you can begin apexing "late". A late apex is when you "tighten your line" late in the corner (past the midpoint, when you're almost through and can see your way through). Apexing late may be slightly slower than apexing near the middle of the corner, but too early an apex can literally kill you, and even a "proper" mid-corner apex on the Dragon can easily result in apexing when you can't see through the corner, exposing you to oncoming danger.

Cool?

Another piece of great advice, especially for "pace" driving: "Don't do something you'll only have to undo later." Apply as necessary.

 

The Dragon is a public road, drive it at the speed limit and use the same caution that you would on any curvey mountain road. Test your skills at a Autocross event where the worse thing you can take out is a cone.

 

I appreciate your honesty.
And I like the message.
I find I am both the faster and slower car at times on the Dragon.... Depending who is around me. I always pull over if I feel I should..... No sense upsetting yourself or the person behind you just for an ego or stubbornness.

Motor on!