The white line is just as important and the yellow lines...... if you drop off onto the dirt there it sucks you up to the wall and up and over. Had a friend a few years back flip her Sky and it landed up-side-down because of this. She made it out ok amazingly, but her car was totaled. So respect the Dragon and drive the right way.... not like you are on time trials.
Indeed. That's pretty much exactly what happened to Kara in Nano. And on the outside corners, same thing, except instead of getting sucked into a wall you get sucked down a mountain with tree trunks. Not good.
And if I remember correctly, that wasn't even during MOTD. They took poor Nano across the Dragon on a different weekend during a personal trip. Nano did his job, though, and took the hit for the family. He also looked damn good while doing it... was a beautiful car. No matter how well you prepare and how careful you are, the road can still come out and bite you. You can better your odds, though: 1. NEVER drive the Dragon when you aren't 100% into the road. What does this mean? A: When you are tired B: If you are an addict like me, when you haven't had your coffee in the morning C: When you don't have your glasses D: When you have had even the slightest bit to drink E: When you are sick 2. Prepare yourself: A: Get plenty of rest B: Keep hydrated C: Stop to enjoy the scenery and let yourself settle. Chat with the other folks out there who are also enjoying the road. Run one way, stop to cool the car and your nerves for 15 min, then run the other way. Repeat! D: Think of motion sickness. I've never been car-sick in my life anywhere other than the Dragon, but I can make myself very queasy if I'm pushing hard and I'm the driver. I carry Sea-bands and chew ginger candy to help. 3. Prepare your car: A: Clean out the loose stuff. B: Oil, gas, air pressure, fluids and all of the stuff C: Good tires 4. Respect the road. When you get out there, you are taking the lives of those around you into your hands. Even if it isn't your fault, you want to know that you were prepared to do everything you can to avoid an accident (especially one where people are injured). Twice while at MOTD I had close calls. Neither were my fault and I'd like to think that my preparations and actions helped save the two idiot bikers... Once a Harley was coming towards me on the Dragon and his back end fishtailed out on a turn he took too quickly. He kept the bike upright, but swirved across the yellow line several times and came to a full stop, sideways, across my lane. I came to a full, very-hard stop (good brakes and good tires + quick reactions due to being rested) about 3 feet from making a Harley Pancake. The ass didn't even wave thanks. Once on my way from Fontana to the base of the dam, a sport bike decided to cut a blind turn and come into my line (oncoming traffic). I was quick on the horn and brakes, but he was set into the turn and wasn't gonna be able to alter course quickly enough without losing control of the bike (way, WAY too much speed on his part). I slewed over onto the side of the road (good tires, good suspension, good reaction times) to have him almost clip the side of the car with his shoulder (he was in the middle of my lane!). Both times I could have walked away from the accident (if it had happened) knowing that I didn't cause it, but I'm a happier person today knowing that my prep and awareness prevented either accident from happening.
I've been down there once. Because I decided to take a "short cut" through Cades Cove of SMNP (don't), and traffic was backed up because everyone on the single-lane loop road had to stop and look at some deer, didn't arrive at the Dragon until after dark. A bit of a bummer at the time, but this thread makes me think that wasn't so bad. Hardly anyone was on the road. I was susprised to see it posted only 35. Wanting to keep a clean driving record clean, I kept my speed under 42. Nav with someone to call the turns out for me helped a lot. Fun and entirely without any white knuckle events. This was in an RX-8, but a MINI is also a very forgiving car.
Not just the Dragon, hellbender NC28 is much more dangerous because speeds are higher, last year a silver Cooper S was sideswiped by a guy on a sportbike that couldn't or wouldn't stay in his lane on a blind righthander, the MINI put it in the guard rail ( one of the few around ) trying to avoid the bike, neither vehicle faired very well but all were ok.
Sounds like the guy on the bike was traveling far faster than he should have been, and well over the speed limit even on 28. He's lucky to be alive, credit to the MINI driver for good defensive driving. The speed limit on 28 is higher, but there are also far fewer curves. I remember being almost bored by it, but this might have been the fault of having the nav system. I always knew what was coming, and adjusted my speed accordingly. Paradoxically, blind curves also aren't as blind at night--you see headlights. I suspect it'd be much more fun to run as part of a group like this one, very much want to do it some time.
It can be dangerous. It does lend itself to higher speeds for those who have a lot of experience on that road, typically longer sight lines, etc. No excuse to do anything stupid or unsafe. But, for those in search of a bit more speed, that's a better place for it than on the Dragon. But always know what your car's and your own limits are, and stay WELL within them. I highly encourage new or less aggressive drivers on Hellbender to be on the lookout for traffic in your rearview mirror as well as to your front. And if you get someone behind you who is obviously more comfortable with taking that road at a higher speed, slow down and let them pass. There are plenty of areas with sufficiently long sight lines to do that safely, as long as everyone cooperates. Especially let them by if it's a blue cabrio with red/white/blue stripes and driving lights in your rearview. :devil: Mountain speak: "that peckerwood is all over my rear bumper" = "hey, I think I should let that peckerwood behind me go on around"
Excellent suggestion. IIRC, there are also pullouts in some of the turns on the Dragon to enable this. The few cars (and one trolling flatbed tow truck) I encountered used them--a pleasant surprise, as it's not standard practice in the U.S. (It is standard practice to pull over to the right to let someone pass in Canada.)
Let me explain what a late apex is. Before I start, I want to emphasize that this tread is full of good advice, please take it to heart. An apex in the context I used it before is a racing term, but everyone who drives around a corner has an apex. Stay in your lane, but that still allows your car to move from side to side in the lane. The apex is simply the inside point of the corner the car touches. If you are going around a right hand turn, and you want the most control, you start on the left edge of your lane. You turn into the corner and you touch the inside edge of the road (apex). You then reach the outside of you lane at the end of the turn. The terms racers use are turn in point, apex, and corner exit (some call it track out). If you think about it, what we are doing is minimizing the amount of steering wheel movement All of this adds up to the line. You want to turn the wheel on turn in and hold that position until corner exit. You start at the outside of the edge of the lane touch the inside and complete the corner on the outside edge. What I have just described is called the natural line. It is also the shortest distance around a corner. It is often not the fastest or safest. A late apex means apexing or reaching the inside point of the turn further around the corner than the middle of the turn. To accomplish a late apex you must drive deeper into the turn before turning in and turn sharper. A late apex is safer because you aren’t going as fast into the corner. You can come off the corner faster (I do not recommend it on the Dragon) because the car is lined up with where you want to go from the apex out. The natural line is faster into the corner, but if you have more speed than you should, you will go off the road on exit. Indianapolis is an example of a track that is fastest using a natural line. That track has long sweeping turns. There aren’t any sweeping turns on the Dragon. The other advantages on the dragon of a late apex are: going slower into the corner you can see what is coming. That is always an issue. There is a lot of satisfaction in finding and mastering the best line. If you have done it correctly your car will be lined up strait coming out of the corner. Most people turn in way to early. They either have to make steering corrections, or slow down on exit. Slow down and try to master the line by using a late apex.
Yes there a are turn outs, BUT they are not very big. On one run last year I wanted to pull over and let an "S" go by, HOWEVER they would not get off my bumper, so I could slow down and pull over. Pushing someone down the Dragon is also NOT a good idea. They will pull over, or they won't and riding their rear end is not going to change that. :nonod: Jim
Sounds like they needed a can of whop-ass opened on them at the end of the run! Just remember if you push someone may just push back so don't be a peckerwood! Safety First.....
In as few words as possible: Stay on the OUTSIDE of the corner until you can see ALL THE WAY through it. You will start your turn at about the same point, just not turn as sharply (stay away from the "inside line"). If you can't see through the corner, STAY OUTSIDE. I can be heard on in-car video saying "STAY OUT STAY OUT!" (even to myself!) because the tendency is to "cut" the corner too early - to "dive for the apex" - and if you dive too early, any excess speed will throw you out the back end of the corner on the wrong side of the line(s). Staying OUT also gives you a better sight line through the corner AND keeps you further away from fools coming the other way who don't drive within their skillset. As you get more familiar, you can begin apexing "late". A late apex is when you "tighten your line" late in the corner (past the midpoint, when you're almost through and can see your way through). Apexing late may be slightly slower than apexing near the middle of the corner, but too early an apex can literally kill you, and even a "proper" mid-corner apex on the Dragon can easily result in apexing when you can't see through the corner, exposing you to oncoming danger. Cool? Another piece of great advice, especially for "pace" driving: "Don't do something you'll only have to undo later." Apply as necessary.
Thanks, these suggestions help me a lot. I do want to learn more of the technical aspects of driving. I've started autocrossing this year and the one thing I'm focusing on right now is looking ahead. I think it helps with staying in control in a turn. It's the one thing all of the instructors said when I was in the autocross school, that you had to look ahead because it's too late to figure out what you should be doing right now. Of course in autocross you're driving to your limit because it's a safe environment. It sounds like looking ahead works nicely into how you would approach a turn regarding the apex. My plan is the same as the last two years, take the Dragon at a pace that I'm comfortable with. I pull over for faster drivers and don't tailgate. Last year when we got behind a REALLY slow Caddie, we would pull over to let him gain some speed, then drive along a bit, catch up to him and repeat. It worked out just fine. Can't wait to get there!!!!
Okay gang, just found out a good friend of mine rolled his SRT4 Neon at the Dragon this weekend. Says the guy behind him counted two rolls. He's sore but okay. Lucky too. Neon on the other hand is done. Had to get a ride back with a friend, and has to go to somebody elses house to get his stuff. Car is still out there somewhere while insurance decides what to do, but he says it's an obvious total loss. This is a guy with a well set up car and I personally know of 3+ years of track time. I've tracked the car and it works (worked?) well. So the Dragon is a dangerous place. I'd really rather not hear of anyone else being in the same position my buddy Scott is in. I'll get more info as soon as I can. In the meantime, lets keep thinking safety!