Brakes Wheels 1st Gen Tires Most liked posts in thread: EBC, Wake Up! Your Pads are Failing!

There is much debate on the cause of that particular accident. Some say it was the EBC pads, others say it was the Alta front control arms, while many swear it was the Palo Uber light bar. Then there is the school of thought that it is none of the above, but was merely due to an F56 sighting. Joke. It's only a joke...

 

Yeah.... I'm starting to get the squirmies in my lower intestines about all these red stuff stories, even though mine haven't been a problem....

I'm feeling the Carbotech 1521's calling me....

 

I use Akebonos for daily driving. (F&R) very low dust, quite and good stopping feel.

Carbotech or The Brakeman.

For the track or the Dragon where stopping is more important than clean wheels from hard braking dust the choice is either of the above.

They both make excellent track pads that are steps way above any HAWK or EBC race pads. The only thing is both manufactures require new rotors for the pads for best results. In a MINI, since its small and light you really do not need a BIG Brake Kit to make it stop you just need quality Pads on good rotors and grippy tires. I dont even use drilled rotors or slots for DD or even the Dragon. I just run light wheels Dunlop Star Specs and good brakes.

It really comes down to to how fast you want to stop and how deep your pockets are.

 

Thanks for your nice response to what some have made into a "touchy, but not so feely" issue.

I DO own a Cooper...yeppers, and I mostly take it to MOTD and to car shows. It has been modded some [catback, cai, 3-hole swaybar, ecu tune, s/s brakelines], though, and has seen some track use in the distant past. It currently has EBC Green Stuff pads...yeah, the "aged" ones that a few guys on here are taking potshots at, and at me. Yeah, my Cooper might be more in tune with "Daisy-driving", since it IS a CVT...gasp.

I ALSO own an MCS...well, actually TWO of them if you count my wife's, as well. MY MCS is good to go for the highways AND for the track [it IS modded a lot more than the Cooper]. No, it's NOT one of Dave O's "meth-mobiles" or I suppose a "modfather-mobile", but it gets along with the A and B groups at the track and it has had the EBC Red Stuff pads on it for the last 2 years. Due to some of my health issues, though, it has only seen the track for 3 2-day hpdes and 2 MOTDs. It DEFINITELY doesn't do parade laps or drive Ms. Daisy around, though.

Both sets of EBCs were inspected this year after Dave O started in about them. The wheels were taken off and the pads removed and scrutinized. Like others have stated, "safety first". The pads were pronounced as "good to go" and are now back on the respective cars.

I can see the end of my 2-day hpde participation in the future. I love driving in them, but feel I have nothing more to prove, and now aging seems to be more and more disadvantageous. I just love driving at Mid Ohio, and, besides, it's close to home [just 130 miles away]. I've done 25+ hpdes at Mid Ohio and 10+ at Putnam Park, IN, plus one at Autobahn, outside Chicago...all since 2005.

 

no problem. i don't keep up with the fail rate of EBC pads cause we NEVER use them. (DUH they are bright green!) but i also think that many MINI Drivers ask way to much out of there green pads and that should help the problem. but i also don;t put it buy the company to just put spit on there and call it good.

 

Blimey--you're absolutely right on the rear pads, forgot to mention that--you can get away your racing pads on there driving on the street, the rears do so little anyway--I put a less aggressive pad than my fronts on the rears, like most do, and leave it there the entire track season rather than change them, it's a pain changing those. I've got three track seasons on my rear rotors and they still look good, although I'll change them for piece of mind in the spring, and pad life on the rears is laughable compared to the fronts, I got like 10 events out of the rear brakeman pads I'm running.

There may be a brakeman rear kit coming out with a little more rear bias, depending on how the car behaves, I may be all over that, Jan's initial results were good.

 

[eerie voice] Chuck..... Come to the dark side Chuck. Carbotechs even sound cooler.... You shouldn't trust anything with three letters mostly consonants. Chuuuuuuuucck..... [eerie voice fades]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2XvxDaIwCw"]Tommy Boy (2/10) Movie CLIP - Desktop Demo (1995) HD - YouTube[/ame]

 

I had this happen with a set of factory rear pads too, on my '03 Cooper S JCW, although the pads were more than half gone when it happened, but they weren't below 2mm....

Check to make sure your E-brake isn't binding causing them to overheat.

I run factory pads now, but once the fronts are done I'll be switching to Akebono ceramics - I have them on the wife's Audi for about 2 years now and I'm so happy with the lack of black dust, noise etc and they're wearing well.

 

Jeff you are easy on pads & tires. Driving styles vary widely. Some folks eat up brakes & tires.

I don't consider myself hard on brakes or tires either. I am going to swap out the greenies on my Miata. Too many reports of failed EBC's for me to leave them on. I'm not going to risk a car over a few bucks for another set of brake pads.

 

If you could go 3 yrs on a set of pads AND do track days on them you are not using the brakes hard at all.

 

If you track, and go 3 years on a set of pads... Are you even using your brakes? Or just doing parade laps with Mrs. Daisy?

 

I didn't post what I did to get all of you to start kicking Jeff. Trust me you can drive fast & not be hard of pads or tires. I know been there done that myself. It's not how fast you enter a corner it is your exit speed that matters most. At track days you are not late braking to dive bomb a competitor into a corner.

 

Sigh. Really sad. Because I'm LOVING the performance characteristics of my Reds. After going through a TON of pads (including OEM, Hawks, Carbotech 1521/AX6/XP8/XP10/XP12, and some others) these are my favorite all around pad that can do EVERYTHING for me (with my 2nd gen fronts) except track days, and I don't do many of those any more.

But I don't know that I can do another mountain run on these after reading all this. I drive too close to the edge as it is, without inviting failure.

I loved the construction and quality of the Carbotechs, and I love the hot stopping power of the track pads... but not the dust and the noise. And the 1521's just don't have enough bite for me (I say that, but I drove them daily for over 80,000 miles). And the AX6 are the perfect mountain pad, but too noisy and dusty for daily use.

Just wish I could find another RIVETED pad that had the same compound characteristics as the current Reds. Grrrrrrr.

 

I plan to pull my greenstuff pads on my Miata & inspect them closely. If I find no evidence of the pads or bonding cracking I'll put them back on & call it good. When it is time for replacement I'll use another brand.

In all my years of driving I have never had a bonded brake pad or shoe come off the backing plate. It does happen as there have been several cases posted here, that is a small sample. Searching the other car forums I frequent this doesn't seem to be a widespread issue. If it happens to your car that is a large enough sample.

Do these pads fail because they are used in a way they weren't designed to? Is this just one bad batch of Elmer's glue or is it more widespread? My plan is to not panic about it & check my brakes. I really like my greenies & would buy another set if this had not come up. In fact I was about to put reds on the MINI.

I'm wondering if we could ask one of our friendly vendors that sell here to please call & ask EBC what is happening with these pads?

End of my aimless rambling.....

 

I have never tried the EBC's (and after reading all this never will, there is an issue there that still hasn't been resolved), but I've run Poly H's, Poly B's, Raybestos ST-43's, various Carbotechs, and currently Brakeman. I've hit insane rotor temps with all of those pads, before getting proper cooling, and never once had a pad failure.

Out of all those pads, Brakeman are my favorite--hard to beat for the price and performance, they are so consistent on the track, but the Carbotech's appear to be the best constructed--rivets and all, they really put them together well. Other pads I'd consider trying would be PF, heard great things about them, but the brakeman setup is so good I don't have any reason to change. Someone complained about Carbotechs and dust--I thought the Bobcats were pretty good with dust when I used them, but that's just me.

As for getting almost three years out of the pads, and almost as much on the tires--I think he owns a Cooper, which is going to be gentler on disposables than a heavily modded MCS, and everyone drives different, and with different levels of aggression, no right or wrong as long as everyone is having fun and is driving safe. I get 2-3 track days out of my pads, and roughly 8 HPDE's on the tires (at least the fronts, the backs last longer and I can't rotate the tires).

 

Just over 70,000 now, but about 15k in the last 8 months...
Rear rotors were replaced due to some odd corrosion (most likely a manufacturing defect, but just after the warrenty ended...so just went with Zimmerman rears) ..so went with similar pad compund as the front...kinds waiting to swap both sets...but if it ain't broke...I am not gonna toss them in the trash...dust drives me nuts, but I run what I have.
But seriously... Used hard or not pads should not separate in any reasonable use or time period.....
Ebc's history is as motorcycle pad company...remember hearing of similar issues years ago...about the same era as greens were new, and folks were having issues with warped rotors/pad deposit....
Ebc makes some good products, but they have high labor costs and it is looking like some quality control issues IMO.
If the pads bonding surface is rusting, resulting in failure, then it is still a failure... But failure of the coating used to treat the pads bases....either way..just as bad as a epoxy failure.

 

EBC also makes truck pads?????