Brakes Wheels 1st Gen Tires EBC, Wake Up! Your Pads are Failing!

If you could go 3 yrs on a set of pads AND do track days on them you are not using the brakes hard at all.

 

If you track, and go 3 years on a set of pads... Are you even using your brakes? Or just doing parade laps with Mrs. Daisy?

 

I installed a set of EBC pads on a buddy's 335i. I sent him a link to this thread and warned him to keep an eye on them. I read these threads somewhat casually (not like studying a textbook), but I've seen enough mentions of EBC pads delaminating that I'm concerned about it.

 

I use my brakes and I go fast enough for my instructors to sign me off. I just don't see the need to burn them up. I do the HPDEs for fun, to learn the lines and apexes. Now, the tires are another thing, I guess, having gone thru 2 sets in the last 3 years. But, I still have plenty left on this last set to get me thru another year, as well as to and from next year's MOTD.

 

Probably not as hard as you do, true, but I'm there for fun and my own experience. I drive my car to the track and back home again. I don't have the luxury or knowledge of being able to change out pads while at the track and I need to drive 130 miles back home after the track sessions are done.

The Hawks lasted just over 2 years. The Red Stuff pads have been on since MOTD, 2012, and the tech guy says they should last for another year.

 

I didn't post what I did to get all of you to start kicking Jeff. Trust me you can drive fast & not be hard of pads or tires. I know been there done that myself. It's not how fast you enter a corner it is your exit speed that matters most. At track days you are not late braking to dive bomb a competitor into a corner.

 

Ferodo 2500 are a great pad that can be trackable, i use they on my car daily, but yes they dust. The Hawk HPS is what we put everyone in cause they do not dust and are a great street pad. but they are not a track pad. they work well for daily use and some autocross. but if your an aggressive driver you have to live with the dust. there is no pad in the world that will brake on a track and give no dust on the street. so you have to have a trade off. live with the dust or you have to swap out pads for track days. its like haveing a car that seats 8 comfortably but handles like a super car and is soft riding..and i want to tow with it and do track days... just cant happen. but any pad could fail after time depending on location in the country. water is an amazing thing and can get into everywhere. add a bit of heat and the pad starts to break up a bit allowing more water to get behind it..since the backing plate is metal it starts to rust.. rust expands and pods the pad off the backing plate. this is speed up thanks to the heat you keep putting int to the brakes during braking add in some rain and in 6 months it can fail.

 

I agree with all the the above Chad except for the water/rust part. Not that water does not cause rust we all know it does, but that it's the main problem with the EBC pads. I have had 3set for EBC pads fail for the same reason (2 front 1 rear) backing plate pad separation.

All brake manufactures have to deal with the same conditions and the EBC pads are failing at a very high rate compared to all the other manufactures.

 

When you look at the greenies posted here it sure is the rust that popped them loose. Sort of a chicken vs egg thing though. Did the pads separate a little & let water in for rust to do its thing or did the rust do it without separation letting the water in? There is a whole load of rust on those backing plates. Either way that sucks.

 

The Elmer's glue EBC uses sucks and the pads separate and water gets in and they rust.

If the pad did not fail the water would not get be able to get in and cause the rust.

My pads separated and it had nothing to do with water or rust it has to due with EBC's poor choice of pad to backing bonding agent.

 

Sigh. Really sad. Because I'm LOVING the performance characteristics of my Reds. After going through a TON of pads (including OEM, Hawks, Carbotech 1521/AX6/XP8/XP10/XP12, and some others) these are my favorite all around pad that can do EVERYTHING for me (with my 2nd gen fronts) except track days, and I don't do many of those any more.

But I don't know that I can do another mountain run on these after reading all this. I drive too close to the edge as it is, without inviting failure.

I loved the construction and quality of the Carbotechs, and I love the hot stopping power of the track pads... but not the dust and the noise. And the 1521's just don't have enough bite for me (I say that, but I drove them daily for over 80,000 miles). And the AX6 are the perfect mountain pad, but too noisy and dusty for daily use.

Just wish I could find another RIVETED pad that had the same compound characteristics as the current Reds. Grrrrrrr.

 

I plan to pull my greenstuff pads on my Miata & inspect them closely. If I find no evidence of the pads or bonding cracking I'll put them back on & call it good. When it is time for replacement I'll use another brand.

In all my years of driving I have never had a bonded brake pad or shoe come off the backing plate. It does happen as there have been several cases posted here, that is a small sample. Searching the other car forums I frequent this doesn't seem to be a widespread issue. If it happens to your car that is a large enough sample.

Do these pads fail because they are used in a way they weren't designed to? Is this just one bad batch of Elmer's glue or is it more widespread? My plan is to not panic about it & check my brakes. I really like my greenies & would buy another set if this had not come up. In fact I was about to put reds on the MINI.

I'm wondering if we could ask one of our friendly vendors that sell here to please call & ask EBC what is happening with these pads?

End of my aimless rambling.....

 

When I called EBC and spoke to them about this problem they denied they had any reported pad separation issues. They said I was the first. (BS just google it)

I was shocked and said my Reds failed and EBC sent me and additional set of new pads and reimbursed me for the Reds I had to buy and the shops labor to install them. I took that new set of Reds directly from EBC to the Dragon last year and had to use them because the new set that was on the car failed again. They did not fail from driving on the Dragon and they did not catch on fire they failed on the way to Fontana. If you are counting at home that's 3 sets of EBC Reds just for the front.

I was also shocked because the mechanic I used also just replaced EBC pads and rotors on another MINI that the pads failed on. The pad failed while driving and the backing plate got wedged and destroyed the EBC rotors. EBC sent the replacement parts directly to the shop after a few phone calls and pictures. He still had to pay for the labor and wait to be reimbursed.

Just a few weeks ago my rear pads failed for the same problem and that makes 4 total failures so I am done with EBC pads forever.

Just another side note about EBC pad failures.
It is not always the entire pad that separates completely. I have seen half the pad crack and brake off leaving the other half (top or bottom) still attached. This is hard to check for unless you take the pads completely off and inspect them without them being in the brake calibers.

Be save everyone and really inspect your brakes yourself if you have installed EBC pads.

 

I have never tried the EBC's (and after reading all this never will, there is an issue there that still hasn't been resolved), but I've run Poly H's, Poly B's, Raybestos ST-43's, various Carbotechs, and currently Brakeman. I've hit insane rotor temps with all of those pads, before getting proper cooling, and never once had a pad failure.

Out of all those pads, Brakeman are my favorite--hard to beat for the price and performance, they are so consistent on the track, but the Carbotech's appear to be the best constructed--rivets and all, they really put them together well. Other pads I'd consider trying would be PF, heard great things about them, but the brakeman setup is so good I don't have any reason to change. Someone complained about Carbotechs and dust--I thought the Bobcats were pretty good with dust when I used them, but that's just me.

As for getting almost three years out of the pads, and almost as much on the tires--I think he owns a Cooper, which is going to be gentler on disposables than a heavily modded MCS, and everyone drives different, and with different levels of aggression, no right or wrong as long as everyone is having fun and is driving safe. I get 2-3 track days out of my pads, and roughly 8 HPDE's on the tires (at least the fronts, the backs last longer and I can't rotate the tires).

 

I'm wondering if we could ask one of our friendly vendors that sell here to please call & ask EBC what is happening with these pads?

If this ^ would happen EBC may pay attention to this. Who knows.

 

Thanks for your nice response to what some have made into a "touchy, but not so feely" issue.

I DO own a Cooper...yeppers, and I mostly take it to MOTD and to car shows. It has been modded some [catback, cai, 3-hole swaybar, ecu tune, s/s brakelines], though, and has seen some track use in the distant past. It currently has EBC Green Stuff pads...yeah, the "aged" ones that a few guys on here are taking potshots at, and at me. Yeah, my Cooper might be more in tune with "Daisy-driving", since it IS a CVT...gasp.

I ALSO own an MCS...well, actually TWO of them if you count my wife's, as well. MY MCS is good to go for the highways AND for the track [it IS modded a lot more than the Cooper]. No, it's NOT one of Dave O's "meth-mobiles" or I suppose a "modfather-mobile", but it gets along with the A and B groups at the track and it has had the EBC Red Stuff pads on it for the last 2 years. Due to some of my health issues, though, it has only seen the track for 3 2-day hpdes and 2 MOTDs. It DEFINITELY doesn't do parade laps or drive Ms. Daisy around, though.

Both sets of EBCs were inspected this year after Dave O started in about them. The wheels were taken off and the pads removed and scrutinized. Like others have stated, "safety first". The pads were pronounced as "good to go" and are now back on the respective cars.

I can see the end of my 2-day hpde participation in the future. I love driving in them, but feel I have nothing more to prove, and now aging seems to be more and more disadvantageous. I just love driving at Mid Ohio, and, besides, it's close to home [just 130 miles away]. I've done 25+ hpdes at Mid Ohio and 10+ at Putnam Park, IN, plus one at Autobahn, outside Chicago...all since 2005.

 

Who cares if somebody uses a set of pads in a month or 3 years...
The backs should NEVER SEPERATE....
The OEM don't....why should we expect less from an "better" aftermarket replacement?!
I have ebc "ultimates", aks blacks, their cheap OEM equivalents on the rear of my 2005....so far no issues... But it does make me worry....
And for the record....
My 2005 mini still has the OEM pads that the factory installed when the car was built on the front... Car is tuned, etc....begin the flames?! Cause I drive safe? You don't need to wail on your brakes to drive hard fast....only stop...pick the right speed gear, etc. And carve the turns!!!

 

No flames from me Zippy. How many miles do you have on your 2005?

I agree no pads should be failing this way. At first I thought it was from folks roasting them, but now it seems that isn't the case.