Suspension Brakes 1st Gen Eibach Pro Street Coilover Setup Help?

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by FERNO, May 30, 2009.

  1. FERNO

    FERNO New Member

    May 24, 2009
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    Sorry about the long post, feel free to skip to the last paragraph.

    02 MCS, Eibach Pro Street Coilovers installed by previous owner. He bragged about it being "as low as it can go without hitting the bump stops, only three threads showing". Currently the car has 205/45-17's on S-Lites and is tucking the tires slightly. The previous owner said he had Kosei K1 17x7.5's and that 215's was the "MAX" (his emphasis, not mine) width that could be run without rubbing. I am planning on replacing the wheels and tires but I'll create a pick-my-tire thread for that. :cornut:

    While I'm sure that his three threads refers to the ride-height adjustment, I don't know if this is the best setup for me. As low as it can go without hitting the stops should be good from the low center of gravity angle, but what about handling?

    I'm looking for fast-street daily-driver right now. Will definitely do MOTD and BRP next year, and possibly a CCA trackday between now and then. If I do an AutoX event, I likely won't be competitive regardless. It's my understanding that my Megan header and reduction pulley will put me squarely in SM. :eek6:

    Everytime I search the other forums I come back with 5 pages of results, and end up with 40 tabs open in my browser with nothing really relevant. So on to my question.

    Is tucking-tire, low-as-it-can-go-without-bottoming the best handling setup? Is there a setup guide for height/preload, compression/rebound for the Eibach setup or other coilovers for the R53?
     
  2. british RACING green

    May 29, 2009
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    i know a few things about suspension set ups (you should see my mini in gt4!) but am by no means an expert in real life however i would recommend you get in contact TSW (texas speedwerks) as they seem to have quite a bit of knowledge when comes to minis and set ups. give em a holla and if they cant help i'm sure they can point you in the direction of someone who can
     
  3. FERNO

    FERNO New Member

    May 24, 2009
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    Thanks, bRg.

    I have a hang up about asking for information from vendors when I'm not planning on buying anything. I've read good things about their KW setup in the other thread, and would seriously consider them for replacement of my Eibachs when the time comes, but I'm not in the market at the moment so wouldn't call them directly for advice on a product I got elsewhere, even though it was already on the car.

    I'm sure that someone will chime in on a search result or a FWD coilover setup guide that they used with the MCS with great results.

    Edit: Or someone will chime in and say that my setup is fine, and that I should run it as low as it will go without hitting the stops for maximum performance.
     
  4. british RACING green

    May 29, 2009
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    yeah, i hope someone chimes in also as i will be installing my coilovers in the near future and am in the same boat as you as to what i want out of my suspension
     
  5. FERNO

    FERNO New Member

    May 24, 2009
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    Ok so disregard some of my original post. Just found that the Pro Street Coilovers from Eibach are height/corner weight adjustable only. There is no compression/rebound/preload, etc.

    So the only question that remains is where to set the height.
     
  6. PGT

    PGT Wheel Whore

    May 4, 2009
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    they're two way right? preload and height adjustments are one and the same.

    how does the car ride? the MINI is stroke challenged....slamming on a two way design means you'll have very little travel to work with. It may 'feel' fast but likely is not. quite a few factors at play....the lack of travel, the alignment from being overly lowered, the suspension itself working at the end of it's intended range, etc.

    I just set the ride height on the Ohlins DFV on my STI today....1/2" lower than stock. All the 'stance' guys will say <fail> but the STI is similar to the MINI with a short stroke suspension design...too low = too slow.
     
  7. FERNO

    FERNO New Member

    May 24, 2009
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    Ah, This is what I want to hear.

    I'm much more concerned with performance than 'stance'... but now I have a real problem. The coilovers came installed so I don't have the luxury of going lower than stock.

    I noticed in the Wheel Finder, quite a few people are running 215/45-17's, so maybe someone can help out with some ride-height specs. From what I've read, alignment should be in the 2.0-2.5/1.0-1.5 F/R camber range, but feel free to offer suggestions.
     
  8. Ryephile

    Ryephile New Member

    Apr 9, 2009
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    To set ride height, you'll have to measure the total stroke of the coilovers and where it's located in suspension ride height. Typically you center the ride height in the middle of suspension stroke, however the MINI does respond favorably to having more droop than compression travel. From the factory the suspension runs something to the effect of 2/3rds droop and 1/3rd compression travel. [5" total stroke = 3.3" droop travel and 1.7" compression travel, for example]

    That should give you a basic good start. Let us know what kind of total stroke and where in the suspension ride height it is. [from the axle center to the bottom of the wheel arch apex, stock is something like 14.0" front and 13.5" rear for an R53, depending on options]

    Cheers,
    Ryan
     
  9. FERNO

    FERNO New Member

    May 24, 2009
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    Thanks, Ryan!

    Droop is a new term for me. I'll equate it with rebound travel mentally from here on out, correct me if I misunderstand.

    Any clue why the mini responds favorably to less compression travel? Doesn't that effect whether or not the car hits the bump-stops? Currently the car is in the shop for fubar'ing the tensioner and taking other parts with it, along with the airbag light that I'm trying to confirm is covered by a TSB.

    So the factory setting is around 1/3 compression 2/3 droop... What, in your experience, has been the best ratio for a handling setup with coilovers? Still the 1/3 compression 2/3 droop?
     
  10. Ryephile

    Ryephile New Member

    Apr 9, 2009
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    You're correct that droop can be considered rebound travel. The only differentiation to me is that droop implies from ride height and rebound implies motion after a bump or articulation; perhaps that's just a minor technicality.

    The only reason I can think of is that lots of droop travel keeps the tires on the road during at-limit cornering even with an undulating surface. As McLaren refuses to learn this year in Formula1, you need to keep the tires on the road to go quick. Lotus uses a 50/50 droop/compression travel philosophy with the current Elise/Exige, but it also has carefully positioned roll centers that you can only manage with proper SLA suspension. Since the MINI uses a McPherson strut front end, the roll centers move around much more, so perhaps more droop is a band-aid for that instead of having the car pivot tidily around the center of it's overall travel.

    Ok my brain is empty now, LOL
    Cheers,
    Ryan
     
  11. theCapn

    theCapn New Member

    May 13, 2009
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    I apologize in advance for the hijack.

    So, what is your impressions of the DFV setup?

    I've had a set on my MINI for a while now and have gotten them feeling pretty good - for me anyway.

    Ryan, FYI, I went back with the stock springs.

    /hijack
    +1 for what PGT and Ryan have posted.
     
  12. PGT

    PGT Wheel Whore

    May 4, 2009
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    :lol: good explanation though

    On my STI, I have maybe 75/25 droop/compression. Being a rally-inspired suspension, I thought there would be more compression ability actually, but having the ability to track the surface over very rough stuff makes sense too.

    Whatever the engineers did, it works. It's just as much fun to drive as my MINI was on Cross coilovers and has HUGE levels of grip compared to the old STI models (room for tires helps....295's will fit with a bit of persuasion).
     
  13. PGT

    PGT Wheel Whore

    May 4, 2009
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    what rates are you running? Diff cars I know but also wonder how the dampening plots might compare.

    I drove a friends STI with DFV's and 9kF/8kR (500lb/450lb). I swapped on 7kF/8kR Eibach ERS springs...based on that experience and experience with 8k/8k in my Legacy (similar setup as the new STI).

    The ride is firm, but very rarely harsh. Once in awhile, you can feel the car is 2x as stiff as stock, but the dampers really, really shine. I'm set 1/2" lower than stock (NOT low) and use them at about 50% stiff (12 clicks out of 25). I feel like it's less bouncy than my MINI was on Cross...part of that is a longer wheelbase for sure but the dampers also are clearly top-notch.

    I'm getting my alignment on Monday and it's been raining here, so, I haven't really pushed the car yet to be able to comment on how the DFV's control body motion.

    My friend with the other set let his buddy drive his STI at NJMP two weekends ago (he was driving his 911 GT3 RS). Stage II car (reflash and turbo-back), Ohlins DFV on Neova's and an aggressive alignment (too much actually). He was passing all manner of higher performance cars...obviously experience > hardware but they both said they were impressed with the platform and how the DFV's did at the track (new STI's have a fair amount of body roll....not that it hurts grip much but it's disconcerting for those of us used to a MINI or 911).
     
  14. theCapn

    theCapn New Member

    May 13, 2009
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    They come with a 6kg/mm front and 5kg/mm rear. I had tried to go up (7k) on the fronts, but decided to go back the original setup after running them a while.
    I may step up f and r to 7k, 6k resp. later, but that might be a while. Gotta do a clutch/flywheel, so that is taking my mod money.

    I'm about the same drop. They say that it's a 20mm and 25mm drop f to r, but I think I'm a little more than that - going on my heavy car (sunroof, etc). That's one reason I wanted to up the rates. Like you said the dampers really shine.
    I've got mine set right in the middle (12 of 24) for my daily commute, but I ran MotD at 8 from full hard and it was a blast. The only thing that I noticed was that it was tad slow in responding to some of the larger compression-to-droop changes. Mainly on Hellbender, but some of the Dragon too. Backed them off to 10 and cruised. Again, like you stated, firm, but never harsh.
     
  15. PGT

    PGT Wheel Whore

    May 4, 2009
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    what's the cost for the DFV set for the MINI and who sells them? The STI ones cost me $2900 but were complete bolt-ins, front and rear tophats included, fully assembled and ready to go.
     
  16. PGT

    PGT Wheel Whore

    May 4, 2009
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    the springs for my app are 7" I think. If you want to play around with 8k and 9k, just cover shipping and you can borrow mine. They're brand new, unused.
     
  17. theCapn

    theCapn New Member

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    I'm going to start a new thread with all of the relevant info. Thanks to the others for the hijack. :D
     
  18. FERNO

    FERNO New Member

    May 24, 2009
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    OMGHIJAKBBQ!!!!!!11one1!
     

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