1st Gen R53 Cooper S Engine Pinging on acceleration at high rpms + engine running lean

Discussion in '1st Generation: 2002–06 R50, R53 & 2004–08 R52' started by KamGraphica, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. KamGraphica

    KamGraphica New Member

    Dec 30, 2009
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    Howdy,

    I was wondering if anyone has experienced engine pinging. I have been told that my car is running lean at the higher rpm range.

    I have drive a 2006 cooper S (automatic) that has stock injectors and spark plugs. I have a 17% way motor works pulley.

    Ever since my tune back in May I've noticed in high rpms I gear a pinging sound coming from the engine. If I can best describe the sound it would be like pebbles in a coffee tin. I only hear it if I step on the gas and floor it but at normal cruising speeds its perfectly fine.

    I've gone through a couple of things.

    1. stock injectors and stock spark plugs aren't the right type for my pulley and tune. So it's not getting enough fuel at the top end which makes my car run lean and ping.

    2. Bad coil pack. I had a friend check and clean my coil pack on my car and noticed that terminal 3 and 4 were black and 1 and 2 were kinda corroded. That is also a stock coil pack.

    Does anyone know if a combination of a bad coil pack, stock injectors and spark plug could cause engine pinging.

    I was thinking that 550cc injectors and NGK BKR7EIX spark plugs would be the better set for my set up since I'm stock.

    Thoughts would be appreciated :Thumbsup:
     
  2. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    So...

    you have a 17% pulley and what else? When the tune was put on your car, how was this done? Just a plug and play tune or one done on a dyno with some data logging?

    The fact that it's at high RPM at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) sounds like it's a fuel issue. These are classic symptoms of not enough fuel for what your car needs. But before you go changing stuff, it's best to know more about the before and after.

    In your post you say that "ever since" your tune in May.... So did it start exacly when you got your tune? If so, it's the tune isn't well matched to what your car is doing. If it's a canned tune that works on other cars with the same mods, then it's possible something on your car isn't doing well.

    Fuel pressure regulators, spark plugs, injectors etc can all make this happen.

    If the connections on your coil were cleaned, it should be good. What did you do about the connections on your plug wires?

    There's really not enough information here to say what is causeing your problem. Give some more details (how was the car tuned, what else is on your car etc) and maybe some of us can help. If there is a problem with your fuel regulator, then just slapping on 550 cc/min injectors (and getting a retune) is a very expensive fix that masks the true cause of the issue.

    Matt
     
  3. KamGraphica

    KamGraphica New Member

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    #3 KamGraphica, Sep 21, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2010
    The car was tuned by Mynes in May 2010. Dyno run before the ecu flash then a run after the ecu was programmed. That is correct after the tune is when I started hearing that "clicking" pinging sound when I accelerate hard. So I mentioned to mynes and they suggested that I should upgrade my spark plugs, fuel injectors so that it's better suited for the tune since I'm running lean on the higher end.

    As for the parts that were installed it was just the 17% wmw pulley and a new belt. The crank, injectors and spark plugs are stock.

    I also checked my coil pack yesterday and terminal 3 and 4 were black. 1 and 2 were kind of corroded and the plugs were pretty bad as well. I had a friend clean it and it seemed to help. I just ordered a oem coil pack and plugs, so that will be getting installed this week.
     
  4. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    Don't forget...

    the wires. The corrosion on the coil terminals means the plug wires are corroded as well.

    Mynes does thier stuff pretty well. Give them a call as well, as they'll know what they did with your car.

    Matt
     
  5. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    I would definitely recommend one-step colder than OEM plugs (BRK7) with a 17% pulley...

    Define "high RPMs" - did Mynes raise the rev limit with the tune? Approximately what RPM does the pinging start?

    380 (JCW) injectors should be plenty unless the rev limiter is REALLY high, or unless you plan to add other mods (head, cam, etc.)

    But I agree with the doctor... understand what's happening before you start throwing parts at it.

    If it was a dyno tune, they should have seen any AFR issues when they did the tune... unless they tuned it really close to the edge in cooler temps, and the higher temps during summer are exacerbating the issue.
     
  6. KamGraphica

    KamGraphica New Member

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    I've been talking to [email protected] I explained the issue and he said they he suggested that bigger injectors and spark plugs and the retune should correct the issue. What I gathered from what he told me was that the stock injectors and sparks aren't giving the car enough power which in turn causes it run lean at the high rpms.

    I originally had just the pulley installed and the was running really bad. I was getting like 15mpg - 20mpg. I took it back in to get tuned and it did drive a lot better and the mpg went up to normal range. 25-30mpg.

    It's confusing on what the issue is... I also talked to Jan from RMW and he came out and checked my car and downloaded the ecu map and said it was fine. He hooked up his laptop and we went for a drive and he herd the pinging. Apparently he said it was 20-22% lean at higher rpms and said it was my fuel pump... but I have stock injectors and spark plugs which also cause the pinging. Correct?
     
  7. quikmni

    quikmni Moderator

    Jun 6, 2009
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    It seems unusual that Mynes would tune your car with stock injectors and then tell you that you need larger injectors to work with their tune. Did you tell them that you plan to install larger injectors so they tuned close to the AFR edge knowing you would install larger injectors?
    +1 on different spark plugs and checking both ends of corroded connections.
     
  8. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    Just adding a pulley

    won't make the car run bad. Thousands have added just the pulley and been fine. You are running awful short on fuel, but others have run what you're running without the knock...

    Matt
     
  9. KamGraphica

    KamGraphica New Member

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    I believe they did see AFR issues prior to the tune and then tuned it and said they adjusted it the best they could with out injectors and spark plugs. I do know for a fact before the 17% pulley and tune I had no pinging.

    Since I have an auto the High RPM's would be around the 5k-6k range I would hear the pinging. normal cruising speeds it's not existent. Only when I have to floor it to get around traffic or merge on the freeway I will get the pinging sometimes.
     
  10. KamGraphica

    KamGraphica New Member

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    So is it possible it's the fuel pump and or coil pack?

    I was told I need a new tune if I get new injectors.
     
  11. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    Sorry - forgot you said it's an auto (so is mine) so rev limiter doesn't come into play - in fact you'll never get the car over about 6700 RPMs... which really isn't THAT high. When we usually think about tuned cars doing weird things at high RPMS, we're thinking over 7000 - but you won't ever get there.

    Where are you located? What are the temps like? Does it do the same thing in the cool of night as it does during the heat of day?

    If Jan saw it that low on fuel at upper RPMs, seems like SOMETHING is making issues in your fuel system... because even the stock injectors shouldn't be that lean on an auto if tuned correctly. Fuel filter? Fuel pump? Pressure regulator? Clogged / dirty injectors? Something is up IMHO.
     
  12. KamGraphica

    KamGraphica New Member

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    I'm located in Southern California. At night I've herd it ping during the day as well as night.

    So possible the original tune is off with my set up.
     
  13. Rooster

    Rooster New Member

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    Guys, one thing to consider is he has an automatic transmission WITH his 17% pulley.

    I'm in the same boat as you. 17% pulley. And colder plugs. Plus a tune. On a dyno. Ran fine for the dyno pulls but immediately started pinging once I was on the road with it.

    So we change to a different style of plugs and go to JCW injectors. Another tune. HARD tunes this time. No pinging on the dyno.

    Back out on the street the pinging starts again.

    Then talked to some other folks. They're recommending 550 injectors and another tune. Plus more dyno time.

    I'm in complete agreement but don't have yet another grand to throw at it.

    And of course, there's always removing the 17% and going down to a 15% pulley.
    But I'm stubborn. So no undersized pulley.

    And this was all on a late model with low low mileage on the clock.
    My thoughts are that the automatic does play a factor in how the engine performs, and of course, one size does NOT fit all.


    I'd think that 550s trimmed properly to idle well and tuned well will help eliminate my issues. But these days I'm pretty much over it.

    I should have gone with what my previous car experiences were telling me out of the gate, rather then listening to others.

    Did I mention I'm stubborn? Know it all? Not at all, but as much as things change, some things also stay the same.
     
  14. KamGraphica

    KamGraphica New Member

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    Yeah I agree, I really don't want to downgrade to the stock pulley. So do you have jcw injectors? 380's?

    I had a feeling it was going to be a problem in the future. So you have an automatic as well or just the same size pulley.

    Tons of people have told me.. new sparks, injectors, coil pack, fuel pump or fuel filter.. gah!
     
  15. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    I'm running:
    MCS automatic
    17% pulley
    Thumper TPR-1 head
    RMW/Newman cam
    RMW street header
    JCW exhaust
    JCW intake
    ported intake manifold
    stock intercooler
    380cc JCW injectors
    RMW tune

    No pinging. Ever. Even with the meth turned off. :D

    550's just seem like huge overkill on the automatic with a stock head.. If you're turning 8000RPMs with a big valve head... sure, you can use lotsa fuel flow...
     
  16. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    If I was having your issues, I'd do the following:

    1) have the dyno tune validated
    2) have someone do a fuel pressure test
    3) installed colder plugs and JCW injectors (or get my injectors tested/cleaned)
     
  17. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    This...

    could be something as simple as a dirty fuel filters.

    To start this, check fuel pressures at load. You may need some help with this, but basically, you hook a fuel pressure gauge to the shrader valve fitting at the end of the fuel rail, and take the car out and drive the snot out of it. See if you're getting a fall off in fuel pressure. If you are, you're check that side of the system first. So that's the pressure regulator, the fuel filter, the fuel pump. If you're not then you attack the fueling side: Injectors! There are lots of places that can clean and measure injectors, I've used WitchHunter Performance - Injector Cleaning & Flow Testing Services as they are on my coast, and are fast and relatively inexpensive. A dirty injector can make one of the cyliders run lean...

    Anyway, I'm still a fan of proper diagnostics before I spend more on parts.... Unless they are really cool parts, then sometimes I just get the stuff anyway...

    Matt
     
  18. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    Spooky! Matt and I agree on something else... :lol:
     
  19. KamGraphica

    KamGraphica New Member

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    Hey guys I really appreciate this. I wasn't getting any info on nam and tons of conflicting comments on what I should be looking for. This has helped me a bunch.

    So if I get new fuel injectors. 380cc and not the 550?
     
  20. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    I would get whatever your tuner recommends. But if you get anything larger than 380's the car will probably run like crap (if at all) without a retune. Most folks installing the high flow injectors actually do it when the car is at the dyno waiting for the tune. I don't think you NEED anything larger than 380's with the automatic. But some tuners like to have the larger injectors to play with.
     

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