2nd Gen R56 Cooper S Extremely Cold Weather = a lot more HP?

Discussion in '2nd Generation: 2007+ R55 through R61' started by Ontourus, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. Ontourus

    Ontourus New Member

    Dec 27, 2014
    2
    0
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I was just doing a little googling and thinking because of this super cold weather we have right now in upstate New York, its 0 degree's F

    So according to yahoo answers the difference between running a car in 30 (86) C to 0 (32) C is as much as a 10% Hp gain? Considering its 0 degrees F here that would mean its more like 15% for my location in this temp.

    So does this really mean I would an extra 30 hp (If I had 200 hp) more then if I was driving in 86 F degree weather like Hawaii which is where I used to live and drive my R56.

    In closing, I'm about to get an RMW tune, would it be actually possible to Tune for extreme cold weather driving?
     
  2. ZippyNH

    ZippyNH New Member

    Jan 25, 2010
    1,404
    686
    0
    Pilot
    Southern NH
    Ratings:
    +686 / 0 / -0
    Yes...same answer as your NAM THREAD..LOL.
    Technical reason is a colder intake charge is more dense..so more molecules of air...so more fuel can be added....and a colder charge can take more timing advance before having preignition or knock issues, heck even cold fuel is more dense.....and cold tires tend to squeel more, and that and the fact there is a bit of sand on the roads making it easier to spin the tires= more fun for s turbo/supercharged car in the cold......
    Its also the reason WHY so many folks want a BIGGER intercooler!!
    P.S.
    Welcome to M/A if I missed you first post!!
     
  3. Stefanie

    Stefanie Well-Known Member

    May 8, 2014
    545
    804
    93
    Staff Microbiologist/hematologist at UC Davis
    Sacramento, CA
    Ratings:
    +804 / 0 / -0
    I kind of doubt the HP gain/loss is completely linear to change in temperature. Diminishing returns and all that fun stuff.

    Then again, I'm no expert at this kinda thing. ;)
     
  4. TheModFather

    TheModFather Well-Known Member

    May 15, 2012
    6,022
    5,306
    113
    11 years in the ARMY, 2 years of being a multitale
    North Denver CO.
    Ratings:
    +5,316 / 0 / -0
    I know that in theory it works... Cooler inlet charge = more power...

    But, for some odd reason the Porker feels (yes butt dyno, but you can actually feel this one) faster if the temps are 50 degrees or more.

    To me this also makes a little sense, because when you control all aspects of how an engine runs with a computer you can do pretty much anything! Who knows, maybe MINI built something into the N18's ECU to cut boost or drop timing below 50 degrees, or in extreme cold.

    This has been nagging at me since I bought the R60, and the only way to know would be to hack the ECU and see what all is giong on.
     
  5. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

    Mar 30, 2009
    25,144
    10,031
    113
    Writer
    Short North
    Ratings:
    +10,048 / 0 / -0
    Not in my case at all. Extreme cold means car cranks, sparks spark so I figure fuel is to darn cold. I filled up with Sunoco 93 at a busy place before the cold snap to keep condensation low too.

    Where's my global warming Mr. Gore. I want to burn more fuel and make it warmer!
     
  6. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
    Lifetime Supporter

    May 4, 2009
    23,824
    12,949
    113
    Burbs of Philly, PA
    Ratings:
    +13,662 / 4 / -4
    Cold air plus meth is good but good luck getting traction. All I do is spin my tires.
     
  7. Zapski

    Zapski Well-Known Member

    May 4, 2011
    2,098
    887
    113
    Columbus, OH
    Ratings:
    +935 / 0 / -0
    I'm not a physics or mechanical expert, but here's my take on cold for cars.

    • HP may increase a little due to denser air getting into the fuel mix, and the intercooler working a bit more efficiently

    • HOWEVER - until the car is running at full temperature, there will be more friction in the engine as colder fluids are denser as well.

    • Air resistance while driving may increase slightly due to the slightly denser air as well. Especially at highway speeds.

    • Tires need to be checked, as pressure will decrease with temperature. The lower the pressure, the greater the rolling resistance.

    So the way I see it is that it all balances out. Might have more HP, but there's more resistance holding you back.

    Also, the difference in air density is marginal. It's not any more difficult to breathe in cold air than warm, and we're not all suddenly hyperventilating with all the extra O2 either. I think the differences are not that noticeable on a small scale like an engine or a lung. Large scale, yes. That's weather. Small scale, not so much.

    /my 2¢
     
  8. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
    Lifetime Supporter

    May 4, 2009
    23,824
    12,949
    113
    Burbs of Philly, PA
    Ratings:
    +13,662 / 4 / -4
  9. UKCoopeR

    UKCoopeR Active Member

    May 21, 2009
    293
    109
    43
    VA,USA and UK
    Ratings:
    +109 / 0 / -0
    While I run an r53 one of my buddies runs a r56 jcw and gp (i am jelly of the gp) and our laptimes are always the fastest when the temps are in the mid 40s to low 50s. Any lower and there is no grip, hotter and the engine starts to pull a smidge of timing. It is significant enough to require earlier upshifts by hundreds of feet on some tracks compared to a summer day at 100F

    I know my daily feels faster on its winter tires (and will accelerate faster to 30 from a dig) but that is because they are 205s and on 15s compared to my summer setup of 245s on 18s :p
    *daily is not a mini even though i wish it was
     
  10. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
    Lifetime Supporter

    May 4, 2009
    23,824
    12,949
    113
    Burbs of Philly, PA
    Ratings:
    +13,662 / 4 / -4
    Those temps are ok but we are talking about really cold like Zero and below.
     
  11. N2MINI

    N2MINI MINI of the Month

    Dec 4, 2009
    3,348
    574
    113
    Sign Maker
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Ratings:
    +590 / 0 / -0
    There may be alittle HP gain but not loads of it, mainly just helps you keep using the HP you have due to less heat soak..
     
  12. UKCoopeR

    UKCoopeR Active Member

    May 21, 2009
    293
    109
    43
    VA,USA and UK
    Ratings:
    +109 / 0 / -0
    My bad, missed that bit. In that case, you might make more power but I doubt it would be useable power. Actually going back and reading the question a 10% difference between 30F and 0F sounds a little high to me. There could be some missing terms in the equations used as there are a lot of things to consider.

    If was feeling mathy I could calculate the power difference between different temperature days using the telemetry, but I would be surprised if it was something like 20hp, maybe 10... I don't have data from any track events lower than 27F. The snow at VIR with r-comps was fun! and by fun I mean I crapped my pants every turn till i put on the rains hahaha
     
  13. ZippyNH

    ZippyNH New Member

    Jan 25, 2010
    1,404
    686
    0
    Pilot
    Southern NH
    Ratings:
    +686 / 0 / -0
    Pretty much my thoughts....lik I said...you get more power, less traction, etc..
    Is it gonna be huge...no, can you feel it...yes on a gen1, not sure on a gen2...
    Good luck!!
     

Share This Page