F1 F1 - 2013

Can't find much official on Alonso's pass.. Looking at the replay it is a much slower back marker who had obviously pulled way over off the line to allow Alonso through...

Yes I am a Ferrari fan but I still would like to hear the FIA spin, if the rule is clear, that there is NO passing of any kind under a yellow, he should have received a penalty.

As for the extra private testing MB received, then give all the other teams (not MB) the opportunity of having three full testing days after the next race and then see how the Martini is stirred...

 

I think there are two sets of rules as far as the GP goes. Sutil in a Farce Indaia gets a drive through for blocking when he clearly moved over to let the leaders by. Alonso in a Ferrari passes under yellow & gets no penalty. Standard practice in F1 me thinks.

 

Quick note on Tyres - Paul di Resta of Force India did 56 laps on the mediums. By all accounts the decision to move to the Super Softs was his alone.

Look, in my opinion this kind of invalidates all the criticism of the tyres. If a mid-field team can finish 7th on a low-wear track that allows the drivers to push, and they did it with one and only one required pit stop, then the degradation issues are something the other teams are doing wrong. End of story.

The longer this nonsense goes on, the more I think that the bulk of the complaining is being done as a distraction to the fact that some cars are not as strong as the teams think they "should" be. It's all smoke and mirrors, and manufactured drama.

[/rant]

Kimi got 47 laps from his Mediums, Jenson got 42.

As for Mercedes getting a big advantage, Nico Rossberg had 3 stops. The only other driver to have 3 stops was van der Garde. If they'd had such a big advantage, both Nico and Lewis would have been on one-stops like di Resta and Button.

Most of the rest had 2 stops, including Lewis, Seb, and Alonso.

Five drivers had one stop, including Button, Kimi, and Jules Bianchi who got 27 laps from SuperSofts.

This kind of thing happens every season. Drivers and teams cry loudly about some injustice at the beginning, and as the season goes on they learn how to adapt and suddenly we see cars performing better.

The only difference this year is that Pirelli was stupid enough to respond to the theater, instead of just ignoring it, and Mercedes was stupid enough to agree to in-season testing.

(OK, now I'm seriously done with the rant)

 

You just cannot equate the value to any team, even more so to a team that possesses the resources that MB does, of three full testing days at a track you just raced at, and you are the only ones invited.

Tis remarkable that even more is not being said about this.:sly:

 

Why would it flash yellow where the drivers approach & red & yellow on the back side? Makes no sense at all.

They could have changed the light to desbris after Alonso past, but it sure was yellow during that pass he made.

 

^^^this (Nathan)......

Was the same kind of thing that happened at Brazil last year, remember

 

Yes!!!

 

Two things from the UK TV coverage:

- David Coulthard was very sure that Rosberg and Hamilton would have got an advantage from the testing since they were doing lots of laps in a no-stress environment where they could try out different driving styles and see what worked.

- Eddie Jordan interviewed Ross Brawn who was fairly non-committal, though he pointed out that it was 2014 prototype tyres they were testing, not current ones.

 

Well, it wasn't just that they were testing tires - the entire thing was unsupervised by the FIA, so what else could they have been testing at the same time? I mean, they did 1000 miles (kilometers?) of testing - that's a huge amount.

Other teams don't get to do this, and the rule is very clear that for tire testing they cannot use the current spec car - Mercedes did.

Should be a fairly cut and dried deal, right?

 

/\ Exactly.

 

Sure, and it was stupid beyond belief that they did that kind of testing. But the tyres aren't the problem. The tyres have never been the problem. The complaining was the normal F1 drama kings and queens yelling because it's what they do.

The problem is the testing. Yes. That was dumb. It was dumb of Pirelli to pay attention to the shouters, and it was dumb of Mercedes to participate the way they did. All criticism is fair and deserved as far as the testing goes.

So yeah, the testing is cut and dried.

But there was never a real problem with the tyres. Pirelli should have ignored the shouting.

At least, that's how i see it.

 

I'm not totally sure tire wear of the Pirellis is the problem. If it was just tire wear, teams would adapt their strategies to fit. They all know the supersofts are good for something like 5 laps and mediums are in the 40 to 50 range in general. However, there were a few tires that shredded themselves apart when to they were not totally worn out yet. I could be anything that caused that to happen, such as the way the cars are set up, or the way certain drivers' driving style. But the fact remains, some tires literally broke apart at speed, as opposed to a gradual wear down.

I feel I might understand this issue a bit, because the Pirelli Euphorias that came with my car came apart even though there was lots of tread left on the tires and I did not hit anything obvious. A close inspection showed the tread seam had dried out and the rubber cracked. The stiff sidewalls of the runflat tire pulled out and away from the tire tread. I'm not saying this is the same issue as an F1 tire, but I am of suspicion that the construction design of the belts might be remotely related amongst all Pirelli tires and a similar thing may be happening to some F1 tires.
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The problem with the tire test has nothing to do with tires really, it has everything to do with allowing a big player such as MB to get three test days with this year's cars and drivers in the middle of a season that they were mostly non competitive in.

Now they have one win and one third place finish in the first two races since the test. The tires were just an excuse for the FIA and Bernie to give MB a chance to catch up. Period.

 

I'm pretty sure that Hamilton didn't score all 77 of his points in the last two races? The funny thing is that I'm not even a big fan of Hamilton and I keep defending the actions of the Merc team.

 

I think we must be watching different seasons

All along, before Monaco, everyone (Red Bull) was crying about the tyres. The wore out too fast. It's not "real" racing any more if the drivers can't push. The tyres were the only thing anyone talked about.

Now, before the testing, before Monaco happened, Mercedes were getting on pole. They had great qualifying times. Long before Monaco everyone said "Mercedes is going to be strong in Monaco, because they qualify well, and passing is difficult."

THEN the tyre testing happened, THEN Monaco happened. Mercedes won, just like everyone had predicted LONG BEFORE THE TESTS HAPPENED.

So, no. Mercedes didn't win Monaco because of the tests. For those with short or selective memories, Mercedes was predicted to do well at that track all along.

You can argue that Mercedes had an advantage at Canada, but the fact that Nico pitted more often than any other driver (who wasn't also getting a wing replaced) kind of negates that. Lewis has won Canada every time he's been there (when he hasn't crashed out) so we know that it's a track he's strong at. He was always favored to do well there.

So to sum up:

1- Yes, Mercedes and Pirelli did wrong to have those tests.
2- No, they did not gain any clear advantage from it - They'd been predicted to win Monaco for weeks prior, Canada is Lewis' strongest track, Nico pitted more than any other driver.

 

I will agree that we are at least viewing the season very differently....

Drivers points after Spain and then just two races later after Canada:

Hamilton- after Spain 50 - after Canada 77

Rosberg- after Spain 22 - after Canada 57

Manufacturers points:

MB- after Spain 72 - after Canada 134

 

Hamilton - after Australia 10 - after China 40

 

Rosberg only had more stops because someone was stupid enough to put on 2 sets of super softs. Hamilton did what the rest did with 1 super soft and 2 medium sets.

So yes they did get an advantage from the test. Earlier this season Hamilton would not have been able to run the same degradation rate as the other cars.

I agree. I'd rather allow everyone else to have 3 days of testing then penalize Merc. Certainly McLaren could use it.