No, I got it. I am just still too far away to ferry/shuttle. They need to get those roads constructed over there E. of I-35, they already have some activity due to the relatively new airport, new toll road, etc. but they need to crank the construction activity knob up to 11, ok at least 10.
I think the title of the link is misleading, they were laughing, but not at him specifically - just at the incredible amount of stuff that has to happen before this thing becomes real. And that in itself is amazing to me, just how much crap has to be done before they can have a race the size and scope of an F1 event. Incredible! It also seems that the amount of work that needs to be done in such a short time frame means this thing has very little chance of happening in 2012 - the council seems ready to support the effort, as long as the promoters get them what they need, but it almost sounds like they simply don't know what they need almost till they need it. The part about the pipelines running thru the property was interesting too. They did sound like they were a little miffed about being the last in line to find out about the whole thing, and it can't be smart to treat the people who are going to make your event possible like they're the least important folks in the room by making them the last in line when it comes to diseminating info and asking for permits. Still, there could be a method to this, if by getting enough public support first it makes it difficult or even impossible for the commissioners to say no - rather they have to find a way to make it work. Makes Indy seem tame by comparison, and also points out why they went there first, it was just so much easier to work with an existing facility used to handling huge crowds and with the proper infrastructure already in place as compared to starting up with absolutely nothing in a field outside of town.
Yea the title is very misleading.....I was more disturbed by the whole "we didn't even know you wanted to do this" than anything else.
Organisers of the United States Grand Prix at a new site in Austin, Texas insist the race will go ahead in 2012. Rumours surfaced in the paddock during last weekend's Singapore Grand Prix that the event was already in doubt. But Formula 1 United States spokesman Adam Goldman told BBC Sport:"Tremendous progress is being made on the circuit in Austin, Texas. "The project team and community look forward to hosting the F1 United States Grand Prix in 2012." BBC pundit Martin Brundle raised the issue during the Formula 1 forum after Sunday's race in Singapore, amid rumours the local authorities had not been properly consulted over the plans and with fears over road links to the site which is expected to attract 120,000 fans. But Goldman insisted all the relevant bodies are on board and work is due to start in December. "We are working with the State of Texas, City of Austin and Travis County to break ground on the project by the end of the year," he said. Local media reports in Austin suggested it would need £9.5m ($15m) of road improvements to guarantee clearing people from the site within three hours and there is a feeling it is unlikely this can be completed in time for the race in 2012. But after a delegation visited this year's British Grand Prix at Silverstone, which had a history of transport problems until road improvements were carried out, the organisers have brought in a number of specialists to look at traffic management, including Graham Lake-Grange, a former member of the Silverstone circuit senior management team. The 3.4-mile Hermann Tilke-designed circuit will cost an estimated £115m ($180m) to build with the Formula 1 event expected to generate £190m ($300m) for the local economy each year, as well as job opportunities. Formula 1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone agreed a deal for the Texas capital to host a race until 2021 and, for the first time, a venue for the US Grand Prix will be purpose-built. The last US Grand Prix took place at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in Indiana in 2007, a race won by McLaren's Lewis Hamilton. Its eight-year run was ended after Ecclestone failed to come to an agreement with the circuit's chiefs over new terms. Watkins Glen in upstate New York, Long Beach, California, Las Vegas, Detroit, Dallas and Pheonix have all hosted F1 races in the past. From BBC
Three months from breaking ground and their spokesman did not have one clue as to was going on and apparently learned a few things from the people there that also were pretty much clueless. His answer to the possible DB levels was " LOUD " WTF lol.Talk about the blind leading the blind. Gas pipelines running under the track, an approx 12 hr commute in and out of the facility , the race less than 2 years away and they have not one permit approved . I would love to see it happen but what has been shown so far is a " promise to make it happen " . Randy
Oh man, I would not want to be the site engineers for that project. Sounds like they're gonna need a ridiculous number of permits.
Yep and each and every city and county official will expect to have his or her azz properly kissed..... Like to own the chap stick concession down at city hall for the next couple of years.....
The promoter of the proposed 2012 U.S. Grand Prix in Austin continues to battle with red tape as local and state authorities press for more information on how it will run the venue. The Austin-American Statesman newspaper reports that a joint land-use committee has sent a four-page document of questions to Full Throttle Promotions LLC, many of them related to traffic issues. Inevitably there are serious concerns about whether existing roads will be improved in time for the event. Joe Gieselmann, the executive director of Travis County Transportation and Natural Resources Department, told The Statesman, “They are getting there, but they still have a long way to go. They like to think they can traffic manage everything, but we think there needs to be some hard capital improvement.†The committee's full document: Texas Department of Transportation, Travis County and City of Austin Questions and Issues Regarding F1 Transportation We are concerned about the ability of the existing roadway network to support the transportation and traffic demands of the proposed Formula One site and related activities. A substantial amount of planning will be necessary to address traffic and transportation related to this facility, including traffic forecasts, traffic operations and management planning, traffic impact analyses, and ultimately roadway improvements. Accordingly, we ask the following questions: --What are the applicant's thoughts on how to handle and fund traffic control on local streets before, during and after events? When is it expected to have an on-site and off-site transportation plan finalized? --Describe the proposed locations where the site will be accessed from the surrounding roadway network. Has the applicant considered increasing the number of access points to the site? --Has the applicant set aside funding and a schedule for improving offsite roadways? --We understand the site plan to be conceptual in nature at this time; however when can we anticipate that a final site plan will be available? --When does the applicant anticipate completing a long range, regional transportation study that encompasses up to a 6-8 mile radius and that evaluates approaches to the site from all directions (including other cities) and the loads on those highways? This study would also include future arterial roadway placements, possible rail feasibility, etc. (in other words, a multi-modal, multi-jurisdictional approach). --When is it anticipated scoping and completing a traffic impact analysis? The TIA should analyze more localized traffic loads (up to 4 miles) and operational plans with local improvements and costs associated with those improvements. Please keep in mind that each jurisdiction would like to discuss and concur with the scoping of the study prior to its completion. --Would you provide contact information for the traffic and transportation consultants that you have retained? May we work directly with them? --Has it been estimated how many spectators the site can accommodate for a peak day race? How many parking spaces have you estimated? --Describe the camping that is foreseen on the site. Is it anticipated that tent camping or RV camping will be permitted? Is there a plan to place any type of geo-grid or soil stabilization matting for the unpaved parking areas? If RV parking is anticipated, will utility hook-ups be provided? --Are shuttle bus operations planned? How many spectators are anticipated to take mass transit? Where will bus patrons park, be picked up and dropped off on-site? What routes is it anticipated the busses will take that will keep them out of the standard vehicular queues? Where will busses pick up patrons off-site? Have you looked into capacities of bus service providers and what their capabilities are? --Has it been estimated the number of additional flights that will be coming into ABIA, for the weeks prior and on event days? Has ABIA been contacted regarding the proposed site? --Has the FAA been contacted regarding proposed helicopter traffic to the F1 site? --Are events planned before and after the race event to help disperse peak traffic demands? --Will there be a charge for parking? If yes, will the charge be added to the ticket price or collected at the gate? As parking fee collection can have a negative impact on site access delays, we strongly suggest that no parking fees be collected at the on-site parking lots on the days of the race. --When contraflow is to be used for traffic circulation, a traffic operations and management plan will need to include an approved traffic control setup plan. It is the responsibility of the applicant to fund this activity. --On race days, there will be an extensive need for traffic control officers; have the numbers of officers needed for traffic control during contraflow measures been estimated? The cost for hiring traffic control officers is anticipated to be borne by the event holder. --Has the applicant considered a circulatory roadway system internal to your site to better disperse traffic trying to park and/or exit? How will the internal roadway system utilize several access points for maximum efficiency? --Has the applicant considered a process for informing the public of upcoming races and which roadways to take and to avoid? Will this include information given with the tickets, and will information be distributed through the press, radio, television? --Which roadways are planned to use to access the site for construction purposes? Has it been determined where construction traffic will enter and exit the site? --Are any construction vehicles using adjacent roadways expected to exceed legal weight or maximum permitted weight limits? --Is it expected to have any construction vehicles with loads exceeding the legal width of 8'6†which would require a permit? Emergency Response The Travis County Commissioners Court adopted the International Fire Code in 2009. The County expects to review and permit structures and hazardous materials (fuel) storage on the Formula One site related to this code, including the fire apparatus access roads, fire suppression water and location of all structures on the property. --Does the applicant have an incident action plan? The incident action plan should address how traffic will arrive and leave the site. Other issues to be addressed in the incident action plan are security, communications, law enforcement, fire and emergency medical service (both ground and air). The plan should address how emergency services will be provided to the event and continue to be provided to the surrounding areas before, during and after an event, especially if the roadways are to be blocked by contra-flow. --Does the applicant have a plan addressing the coordination between the multiple jurisdictions necessary to implement an operational and incident management plan? Environmental --How will the significant amount of loose sediment be stabilized and prevented from eroding offsite during the site grading process? What kind of phasing or sequencing of construction can reduce the risk of erosion? Can the site plan provide numerous sedimentation basins throughout the site to retain runoff and prevent erosion? --Please provide documentation from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers addressing whether a CWA Section 404 permit will be required for proposed construction. --Several drainage areas are proposed with larger than 50 acres of contributing drainage upstream of detention, which does not appear to be consistent with County Code recommending controlled alteration of natural floodplain and City DCM guidance recommending no greater than 50 acres. --With the larger drainage areas proposed, as well as the extensive channelization of several natural creek tributaries flowing through the site which appear to be Waters of the U.S., the applicant is encouraged to consider alternatives that combine the detention/water quality facilities proposed with numerous additional low impact development techniques throughout the site. Structures that store water in much smaller catchments could include placement of additional ponds, water amenities and landscaping, underground vaults, pervious pavements, reinforced grass parking areas, and similar techniques. Such multiple, smaller catchments will result in greater upstream infiltration, slower velocities, and lower runoff volumes, which will better mitigate the extensive improvements proposed for this site. --How does the applicant propose to comply with the County Code recommending controlled alteration of natural floodplain and City DCM guidance recommending no greater than 50 acres? --Have the proposed development plans considered potential public safety and environmental risk associated with the proximity to multiple hazardous liquids transmission pipelines owned by Shell, Phillips Pipeline Company and Lo-Vaca Gathering Company with respect to construction activities and proposed land use on the site? --The grading/drainage submittals show filling of some tributary streams and wetland areas. Has the applicant been in contact with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers on the need for a federal CWA Section 404 permit? Floodplain Approximately a third of your site is within the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) floodplain. What activities are planned in this area? If the applicant is proposing development activity in the FEMA floodplain (such as building a road, bridge or placing fill material) the applicant will need a FEMA approved Conditional Letter of Map Revision (CLOMR) and possibly have the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) approved Section 404 permit prior to start of construction. We have heard that there may be a significant amount of parking and camping in the floodplain during events held at the track. This area is prone to flash flooding. The County requires that owners of recreational vehicles (RV) obtain a permit prior to placement of an RV within the FEMA floodplain. What type of evacuation plans have you prepared to ensure the safety of the campers? What types of provisions have you made to ensure that RV owners visiting your facility are compliant with County permitting requirements? Read more: Formula One: U.S. Grand Prix promoter pressed for answers about Austin race
They haven't disclosed any of the answers to those questions.......! Wow, not sure what to think. But around here they wouldn't even let an announcement of anything of that scale to be done w/o a master plan having been completed and submitted for land use approval.
Hahahahahaha, they're so screwed. Regardless of the traffic issues... A third of their site is within FEMA floodplain? They're filling wetlands? I hope they hired good engineers 'cause those permits take time, money, and concessions. I mean, I've seen sites get built under similar conditions, but you gotta have some good feelings with the local and state planning authorities. The 404 permit from the Corps and the CLOMR from FEMA are not easy permits to get. Also sounds like they need a site plan, erosion control plan, several construction phasing plans... but all of those should be in the works. Those guys need to get on the ball and get the city on board.
To make matters worse, 72 of the 199 miles of I-35 between DFW and Austin will be under construction between 2011 and 2015. Getting to Big D to be big trouble
I remember a bit more than 40 years ago the cost to build new interstate highway was claimed to be $1M per mile. That was building from scratch and was an average including the cost of interchanges, etc, though it was mostly two-lane. $1.3B for 71 miles works out to a little over $18M per mile.
Yep, $1M per mile is what I remember too, must be dating ourselves.....:blush2: But, IIRC that was for concrete highways, not ashphalt......
U.S. Grand Prix boss says more announcements coming Tavo Hellmund, founder of U.S Grand Prix promoter Full Throttle Productions LLP, addressed the Real Estate Council of Austin on Wednesday and said a traffic study will be completed within 30 days. According to the Community Impact newspaper, Hellmund said the study conducted by Kimley-Horn and Associates Inc. and Graham Lake-Grange is almost complete, and that he will make "three or four" additional "big announcements" regarding the yet-to-be constructed facility just outside of Austin. Those announcements are expected to include events other than the Formula One race, which Hellmund wants to launch in 2012. In the short-term, however, the traffic situation is the No. 1 interest of various observers, after a recent conclusion by city planners that visitors to the race would have to wait in traffic for up to 12 hours, unless substantial road-system upgrades are completed beforehand. Last week, government officials sent a pages-long list of logistical questions to Full Throttle regarding various potential issues that will come with the construction of a racetrack on the roughly 900-acres of land Full Throttle has secured. Hellmund said on Wednesday that the venue "will host up to four or five big events annually," including music concerts--something many racetracks have taken to hosting in recent years as a way to supplement their income. He also said that the venue will serve an educational role, with the University of Texas at Austin, Texas A&M and others using the place for engineering research and development. "Our goal is to not have just a race," Community Impact quoted Hellmund as saying. "Of course we recognize that's going to be the crown jewel for the first two or three years. But if we build this as we envision, someone is going to be driving down [the road] and see the signs for the facility and say, 'That's where the blankity blank is, and oh yeah, that's where they had the grand prix.'" Read more: Formula One: U.S. Grand Prix boss says more announcements coming