FBI vs. Apple - Privacy vs. Safety?

Discussion in 'Politics and other "Messy" Stuff' started by BruceK, Feb 22, 2016.

  1. BruceK

    BruceK Active Member

    Feb 24, 2015
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    So, whatta you think? Should Apple acquiesce to the requests of the FBI and provide a back-door tool to open a locked and secure IPhone?

    The FBI's case is that they need Apple to provide a software tool to access a terrorist's iPhone as part of the process of conducting a criminal investigation and to possibly help prevent future terrorist acts. The FBI says that they just want access to this single IPhone once, and they are not looking to having a permanent back door for other locked Iphones (please, stop your snickering).

    Apple's case is that creating such a software tool would set a legal precedent that has far-reaching consequences regarding privacy, civil liberties, and effectively opening a Pandora's box regarding what and how the government can compel a company to reveal about an individual's private information.

    I say Apple should tell the FBI to go pound sand.
     
  2. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Once you give up a freedom you never ever get it back.
     
  3. Qik

    Qik Well-Known Member

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    I side with Apple. The FBI can say all day long they only want to access that one phone, but you know dam well they'll use it to access countless others. Who really knows how they will use that software to access data in the future. They're basically handing over a master key to the govt. if they do. I wouldn't trust them shifty bastards.
     
  4. Grizld700

    Grizld700 Well-Known Member

    Feb 2, 2016
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    I 2nd the Apple vote
     
  5. Goldsmithy

    Goldsmithy MINI Alliance Ambassador
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    I am perplexed. Why doesn't the Department of Homeland Security or the FBI have this ability. I mean, really...we pay them enough.
     
  6. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    I side with Apple.


    â€Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.â€
    Ben Franklin
     
  7. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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  8. Zapski

    Zapski Well-Known Member

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    I'm with Apple.
     
  9. caseydog

    caseydog Well-Known Member

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    As a very long-time Apple user, I know that they put a premium on security. I've been a Mac user since the late 80s, and have never been taken down by a virus. I'm sure the FBI would crack the iPhone, if they could.

    As for this case, if the FBI wanted to turn the phone over to Apple to recover the data, I'd be okay with that. But, to give the FBI a tool that they COULD use for more than this one phone would be foolish. I also have no doubt that the tool would end up in the hands of hackers if Apple gave it to ANYONE, even the FBI.

    I'd much sooner trust Apple with that phone, than the FBI with a tool to access data of any kind.

    CD
     
  10. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    I vote for Apple...
    The government screws up everything they touch..
     
  11. Red Bull

    Red Bull Active Member

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    Even if Apple controlled the key, do you think they would want to? Also, if they do it once, will that set a precedent for them to automatically recover any data the Government produces a court order for? I don't think there's really a "just this one time" for something like this.
     
  12. 05r50

    05r50 Well-Known Member

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    It's a slippery slope for sure. It was on the news today that the phone in question was a work phone supplied by the government department that the dead guy worked for.

    Along with that it came out that the local municipal group had purchased licenses for mobile device management software that was never installed on the users phone.

    Had this been installed it would have allowed remote intervention on the device. The employer could have issued a wipe command. They could have restricted the kinds of websites the user could get to. They could have received notifications that the user was frequenting anti- government sites etc.

    Oh, and they could have disabled the auto wipe for 10 bad passwords. That alone would allow the FBI to brute force the device without risk of loss.

    They were paying 4.99 / month and didn't bother to use it.
     
  13. mrntd

    mrntd Well-Known Member
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    I'm with Apple. They got applauded when they announced that ios 8 didn't have an Apple backdoor.

    But 2 ideas.

    1. What if instead of giving the gov a back door Apple got the data off and gave it to the gov. The gov would need a warrant for the request.

    2. What if Apple and gov are saying they can't get into Apple phone to steer terrorist into using those phones. All the while they DO have the ability to get data off.
     
  14. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    I call BS on Apple because the DEAD person has no rights now.
     
  15. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    I think the government needs to place a waiting period and do a background check on anyone contemplating buying an Iphone...

    There.... I fixed the problem...

    And anyone that got their Iphone before the background check was in place, the government just needs to put a control on Iphone battery chargers...

    See... I fixed it again...:biggrin5:
     
  16. whaap

    whaap New Member

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    I'm with who ever can possibly save lives and in this matter it's the FBI. The FBI doesn't want the key. They want Apple to manufacture a key that will open the phone and once Apple has done that they will still be holding the key and can do with it what ever they want.
     
  17. Zapski

    Zapski Well-Known Member

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    You know, the FBI could go back to doing old fashioned police work, like they did before 2007.

    Besides, the FBI directed the county that owned the phone to change the Apple ID password, thus SCREWING UP the ability of Apple to have provided them the backup of the data.

    It's the FBI's fault for messing up their chance of getting to the data without unlocking the phone. It's the county's fault for not using Mobile Device Managment with a company phone.

    It is not Apple's fault that the two government agencies involved were incompetent.

    As for the moron that had the phone? I kinda doubt he'd be discussing terrorist activity on his work phone. His personal phone, yes.
     
  18. ZippyNH

    ZippyNH New Member

    Jan 25, 2010
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    Encryption is just math....you cannot ban math....if all-American made encryption is substandard.... Guess what, folks will use other brands....simple put, those who want it will find it and use it...the rest of us will be stuck with less security...
    To put it simply....if we force Apple to create a flawed firmware as a forensic tool,that tool will be used by any nation in the world to do things we might find distasteful..... Killing dissidents, etc....
    The question is...is encryption a help to security or a hurt...if we make all American products inferior. Why would anybody buy them?

    This debate is not about a single narrow case....
    It is a test case to set a precedent....
    And the reality is, the terrorist DESTROYED their own cell phone....
    The Apple phone is the work phone owned by a state agency, which RE-SET the Apple password when told by the FBI to do so...preventing the automatic backup to apple...
    This entire situation was engineered by politics to make a situation....
    What data would be useful on a work cellphone which the users ok'd being monitored? And weeks after their death? Think anybody with connections to that person covered their tracks?
    And what about all the meta-data....everything done on a phone gets transmitted....unencrypted... Phone calls, etc...so where is it?
    And to point out...the NSA encourages Americans to use strong encryption!! The reason, there are so many ways to monitor and get data, the economics of theft of that data vs keeping it secure says keep your data safe.....or we will be in the same crappy situation we are with our outdated credit card stripe tech...being the last in the world to use mag stripes, and the focus of every criminal group in the world to steal out $$$.
    Wanna have that happen to out cell phones?! Break the encryption....
     
  19. ZippyNH

    ZippyNH New Member

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    Problem is once Apple finda a way to do this...break the phones security, then ANYPLACR THEY DO BUSSINESS in can require they use the "tool" that Apple makes....
    To put it simply the FBI wants Apple to make a signed firmware that they can update the phone too that disables features...

    Next step..Apple burns the security into the chips...so they cannot be forced to comply.
     
  20. Zapski

    Zapski Well-Known Member

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    I really don't see it as much of a safety issue.

    Since 2010, fewer than 20 US Citizens have died due to terrorism related activities per year, world wide. The total number terrorism related deaths for US citizens world wide since 2001 has been about 3,400. That's over 15 years, and most of those were on 9/11. The next highest year was 2004, at 74 dead - and that was at the height of our wars.

    We're far more likely to die of cancer than of a terrorist attack.

    Heck, we're far more likely to die in our cars - 30,000+ traffic deaths a year in the US.

    So while I fully support killing terrorists, and hunting them down where ever they are, they really aren't worth losing freedoms over.

    In my opinion. Your mileage may vary. :)
     

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