1st Gen R53 Cooper S Finally, Gen1 Power Steering Delete Kit Available Soon!!!!!

Discussion in '1st Generation: 2002–06 R50, R53 & 2004–08 R52' started by minsanity, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. TheModFather

    TheModFather Well-Known Member

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    LOL!

    Yeah, I really dont care about how hard parking will become either... Just wanted to know how it feels with a given tire (hard and narrow) to convert that to wide and sticky like we choose to run. ;)
     
  2. minsanity

    minsanity Well-Known Member

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    On those tires, steering knob will be your friend, Dick.:)
     
  3. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    I have found that a good e-brake power-slide in a parking lot avoids having to turn the wheel that much. It also keeps people from parking next to you. :lol:
     
  4. minsanity

    minsanity Well-Known Member

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    Just edited post77 instructions to include REMOVAL of FL4 100A PSP fuse in the engine bay fuse box. This was a Safety Measure courtesy of Da_Ghost.:Thumbsup:
     
  5. minsanity

    minsanity Well-Known Member

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    Another review fr RDY4TKF:

    Sorry for taking so long to post my review. My power steering pump was making the most annoying, embarrassing whine so I disconnected it around May. I drove around like this trying to decide what I was going to do. I saw the posting about Condor making the ps delete so I thought I would wait and give it a shot. It is definitely an improvement over just disconnecting the pump. It is not night and day but enough to where I am happy to have installed it. Obviously I miss the quickness of my steering when the pump was fully operational. The power steering pump was kind of heavy so at least it's not dead weight now that it is off of the car. In the future I will probably buy a new pump but for now I'm happy. Only super tight spots is where the steering is a struggle.
     
  6. Whitebits

    Whitebits New Member

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    I bought mine today, out of all of you that have installed can you list what other weight reduction your car has? This may help to get a gauge of how much the steering improves post delete and how much easier it gets no ps with less weight.

    The reason I have bought it is because I'm building a race Mini, I will be removing air con, heater core, oil exchanger, dash, seats, a ton of unused metal etc, my guess is that once I've taken all this out the delete should feel more like a 5-6 than a 3-4
     
  7. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    #127 Nathan, Oct 6, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014
    Welcome, thanks for joining Motoring Alliance, the FUN and Friendly MINI Community.

    There is a thread from a few years back that has a list of mods and the subsequent weight of the car.

    Please see http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/track-days-hpde-s/1524-car-weights.html#axzz3FP9KTCb0

    On another note, how many of you are impressed that I can remember and pull back a thread from 09-08-2009. I know I was pumped when I remembered and then found it.

    Try that on Facebook...HAH!
     
  8. Whitebits

    Whitebits New Member

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    Thanks for that and welcoming me, would be great to get some feedback on the ps delete with combined weight loss too, as soon as my build gets to this stage I will add my review
     
  9. Whitebits

    Whitebits New Member

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    just got it from the mail office today should be installed soon
     
  10. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    Decided to take the plunge and give this thing a try. While I wait for delivery, here's a question.

    Can anyone explain why that's a safety measure? I know where it is, had to check it a couple years ago when my pump stopped working (the pump was the problem, not the fuse), but going back in there and taking it out is just another hassle I'd rather avoid if removal isn't necessary.
     
  11. minsanity

    minsanity Well-Known Member

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    Some took the shorter route & installed their Condor w/o removing the pump. Therefore, the FL4 keeps it live. That's not safe.
     
  12. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    In case anyone would like a better idea of the size of this thing. My hand for scale.

    [​IMG]

    Also, instead of shipping with 5 narrow washers (see instructions post here) the kit now comes with just 3 narrow washers and 1 thicker washer to replace the doubled up pair on the larger banjo bolt.

    I'm still bothered slightly by the lack of a torque spec for the banjo bolts but mine is installed on the rack for now just tight enough so I can clean everything in the area without having to worry about accidentally getting anything inside the rack. I'll send an email to Condor asking about the lack of torque spec and hope to get an answer before I'm ready to put the subframe back on the car in a couple days.
     
  13. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    #133 Steve, Dec 24, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2014
    I asked Condor for torque specs but they still don't offer them. I'm not concerned about the don't crush bit, I can handle that, but I understand UHMW has a very low coefficient of friction and don't want to worry about the bolts backing out because I was worried about crushing and didn't tighten enough. They say "There are no specific torque specs and we have never had any issues with customers saying that it came loose." So, best guess.

    I've had mine on for a couple hundred miles now and I'm increasingly happy (story below) but still not sure whether I'll leave it. Need to live with it a while longer before I make up my mind. Here's how it's gone, so far.

    On my first drive it took me less than two minutes to decide "nope, not gonna work" and start thinking about how long it might be before I would feel like going to the trouble of reversing it (I pulled everything so would need to reinstall). But I kept going, ran a few errands and in the end decided I didn't quite hate it and would give it some more time. Low radius turns were a lot of work and parking was really tough.

    Second and third drives were better but I was just adjusting to the need to use more muscle, planning ahead for every turn, man-handling the wheel, etc. Then I drove my other car (which DOES have power steering) and at the first turn I pulled too hard on the wheel and almost climbed a curb. After a quick "what the **** was that?!" I quickly figured it out and a couple neighbors out for a walk caught me laughing like an idiot (at myself) as I drove off. :D

    I'd been thinking about it and decided I might be better off if I switch from my 8" wheels. I have some 7.5s - I know that's not much less - plus the 8s need spacers (12mm front, 15mm rear) to avoid rubbing on the struts/trailing arms. I'm surprised how much difference it made. The drive today was so much more fun! Low speed maneuvering in and out of parking spaces, etc, is still much less than ideal but low radius turns on the road require only about half the effort. I'm not sure how that's possible given the change I made :confused: but I'm not complaining. It also tells me those wide wheels/tires (plus spacers) put a lot of extra stress on my PS system.

    To tell the truth, I'm glad I pulled the system rather than just draining the fluid and installing the delete block. I don't want to put it back in the garage on jack stands again right away so I kept driving instead of making a rash, premature decision to reverse it.

    So, the experiment continues.
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    Time for another update.

    I've put another few hundred miles on the car since changing the wheels/tires and I'm going to keep the delete. Decided yesterday when I realized I'm back to thinking up excuses to go to the store (and going for a drive anyway when I can't think of a specific excuse) just because it's fun!

    I think I would think otherwise if I needed to do much parallel parking. I remember smiling once about a MINI with a personalized license plate - EZ2PARK - because it was so true.....not so much without a functioning PS system. I find myself thinking more carefully while choosing parking spaces but as long as it's not parallel parking, it's doable. On the other hand, I've been in some very tight parking garages in the past which I think would be a real fight with the delete. Haven't tried that yet...

    Driving is interesting and, once you get used to it, fun. It takes a bit more muscle to turn, though after this much time I couldn't even begin to estimate how much.

    I'm enjoying it, but here's a little insight into my mindset that you should consider if you're reading this and trying to decide if it's for you. Before I deleted my PS system, if you'd driven or even ridden in my car you'd have noticed a lot more NVH than most people are willing to put up with. I've carefully chosen mods, in part because I like tactile feedback from the engine, the suspension, etc (hmmm, probably need to update my Garage). I'm now feeling more of the road through the steering wheel. I like it, some would not. Without a powered assist to insulate from the dips and bumps, etc, I'm feeling them more as the wheel moves in my hands. Not much at all on a straight road, but definitely while turning the wheel at a corner.

    One more reference. Those 7.5" wheels I switched to (see above) are on 225/45-16 tires. I assume narrower tires - thus a smaller contact patch - would make this mod even easier to get used to.
     
  15. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    If you are still concerned about the bolts backing off.... Drill a small through hole across the flats on both hex bolt heads and safety wire them....

    [​IMG]

    There is even a tool made to add the holes...

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    An excuse for a new tool.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    So haven't seen any updates on this in a lonnnnnnnng time. Wondering if Steve is still running it, and if anyone else is? If anyone actually used this on a track car?
     
  18. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    I'm still using mine. I'm still happy with it and have completely lost any desire go back.

    Have not used it on track but I'll say this. The faster you're moving, the less effort is required to make the wheels turn. You don't notice that with a good powered assist because the system insulates you from that reality.
     
  19. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    I wonder if the steering column joints are adequate to handle the high torque of low speed manual steering, over time...
     
  20. fishmonger

    fishmonger Well-Known Member

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    "But officer, I had to go fast, otherwise I'd break my steering column and then cause a much bigger mess. Just trying to keep things safe on the road!"
     

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