Engine Drivetrain 1st Gen Cooper S Forge R53 intercooler (Brief Review)

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by narvarr, May 23, 2015.

  1. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

    Mar 30, 2009
    25,144
    10,052
    113
    Writer
    Short North
    Ratings:
    +10,069 / 0 / -0
    The GRS Intercooler proved to be effective. A bit spendy at £399.99 + options and shipping across the pond.
     
  2. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

    Nov 8, 2014
    183
    116
    43
    Maintenance Tech
    Rowlett, Tx (Dallas Metro)
    Ratings:
    +116 / 0 / -0
    I would have loved to try the GRS but it was out of my budget range. I think the mounting of the Forge Intercooler hurts its performance a little but we'll know for sure how much as we get deeper into summer.
     
  3. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    11,176
    6,176
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +7,891 / 10 / -3
  4. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    11,176
    6,176
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +7,891 / 10 / -3
    The Forge looks a lot like the GRS. What about

    Has anyone tried one of the Direct Flow IC?
     
  5. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

    Nov 8, 2014
    183
    116
    43
    Maintenance Tech
    Rowlett, Tx (Dallas Metro)
    Ratings:
    +116 / 0 / -0
    The GRS and the Forge are both tube and fin core design and they both use CNC couplings and the end tanks have similar designs. The GRS is the same core height as the stock IC, but has 16 rows of cooling tunes. The Forge core height is about 1/3 taller than stock and has 14 rows.

    http://www.grsmotorsport.co.uk/minicoopers.html
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

    Mar 30, 2009
    25,144
    10,052
    113
    Writer
    Short North
    Ratings:
    +10,069 / 0 / -0
    Yes I have tried one, they are not effective. They heat soak terribly. Have lots of track experience with one. Moved to the GP unit, found it was a better unit.
     
  7. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

    Nov 8, 2014
    183
    116
    43
    Maintenance Tech
    Rowlett, Tx (Dallas Metro)
    Ratings:
    +116 / 0 / -0
  8. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
    Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    8,767
    2,547
    113
    Bend, OR USA
    Ratings:
    +2,678 / 1 / -0
    Navarr......in all honesty the IC tech has reached it's limit with the R53 as the OEM location severely restricts what can be done. No one has been able to develop an IC that works better than the OEM or GP one.......period.
     
  9. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

    Nov 8, 2014
    183
    116
    43
    Maintenance Tech
    Rowlett, Tx (Dallas Metro)
    Ratings:
    +116 / 0 / -0
    I understand the mounting location restricts the performance of the intercooler, but there is more to look at than just it's cooling ability. Pressure drop is also another important aspect of intercooler performance. Honestly, when I installed the Forge IC, I was just looking for the cooling aspects of it when I realized after driving with it that it actually provided me with more low end power. This was an unexpected benefit that prompted me to do this review, even though I knew I would get the response that I have been getting from the hard core GP users/supporters. I think we all get so caught up on the cooling part that we miss the rest of the picture.

    Obviously, the standard IC could be improved on otherwise, BMW wouldn't have came out with the GP version. Even looking at the GP IC, it seems to have been a cost/effectiveness compromise judging from the fact that they welded extentions onto a standard IC to add additional rows instead of developing entirely new tooling for a very limited number of cars.

    Like I said, I'm not trying to say that I've found the perfect IC or even one that performs better than the GP. I'm just giving my account of what my experience is. I know someone here in Dallas that actually runs a GP unit and may see if he'd be willing to swap with me for a week so I'll have first hand experience with one.
     
  10. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

    Nov 8, 2014
    183
    116
    43
    Maintenance Tech
    Rowlett, Tx (Dallas Metro)
    Ratings:
    +116 / 0 / -0
    Quick update of sorts. I've had the Forge on for a few weeks now but all the rain we've had this month has kept temps pretty low. Today is the fourth day in a row that we've had no rain and the temperature is starting to rise. Should be up into the 90's by the time I head out to work this evening so I'll keep track of things and see how it goes.
    This morning however, I had to make a run to the local Home Depot to pick up a few items for the audio portion of the car. When I came out of HD 45 minutes later, the ambient temperature was 85 and the IAT was up to 140 due to heat soak. The 5 mile trip from HD to my house with an average speed in light traffic of 43mph and 3 stoplights (that I actually had to stop at) brought the IAT down from 140 to 107. Still seems to be cooling pretty well, but the main thing I noticed is that it doesn't seem to heat back up as fast as the stock IC when sitting at the red-light. With the stock IC, as soon as I stop at the red-light, I can watch the IAT's rise, where as with the Forge IC, temperature seems to hold at where it was. I'm thinking that maybe this is due to the plastic OEM cover not allowing the heat to escape where the end tanks are. For all of the guys that go to the track, maybe try removing the plastic diverter between laps and see if your heat soak temperature is lower.
     
  11. Eric@Helix

    Eric@Helix New Member
    Motoring Alliance Founding Sponsor

    May 4, 2009
    1,154
    1,257
    0
    Shepherd
    Philadelphia
    Ratings:
    +1,257 / 0 / -0
    I can't comment on the Forge specifically, but for the R53, over the years, we've done a boat load of testing on various intercoolers, including stock, stock with thermal coating, Helix/P&D prototype (never released because it didn't improve performance), DFIC, JCW GP, GRS. With the exception of the JCW GP and the coated stocker, none of the coolers had an average performace* that was better than stock. for R53s, don't believe the hype.

    *Average performance is my conclusion of how the cooler performed in real road conditions. Several of the coolers could, for example, put down one dyno run that showed greater peak power than the stock, but it was not repeatable. Please note my comments about intercoolers on dynos here. BTW, the stock MCS cooler with a coating designed to improve heat transfer showed a repeatable lower intake air temperature relative to ambient: 1 degree C lower. There was no measured change of peak power.
     
  12. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    11,176
    6,176
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +7,891 / 10 / -3
    Do heat blankets under the IC help?
     
  13. Eric@Helix

    Eric@Helix New Member
    Motoring Alliance Founding Sponsor

    May 4, 2009
    1,154
    1,257
    0
    Shepherd
    Philadelphia
    Ratings:
    +1,257 / 0 / -0
    ^never tested them. My hunch is that they're gimmicky. You want that space under the cooler to flow as much air as possible.
     
  14. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

    Nov 8, 2014
    183
    116
    43
    Maintenance Tech
    Rowlett, Tx (Dallas Metro)
    Ratings:
    +116 / 0 / -0
    Do you have a link to the R53 IC testing? The other link is for the R56.
     
  15. TheModFather

    TheModFather Well-Known Member

    May 15, 2012
    6,023
    5,310
    113
    11 years in the ARMY, 2 years of being a multitale
    North Denver CO.
    Ratings:
    +5,322 / 0 / -0
    Late to the party, but away from the drama...

    There was one I/C with actual testing done that proved to be more efficient and recover from heatsoak faster than the GP cooler.
    Everybody forgets about it, because they where in the $1400 range when they were released IIRC, and I have only ever seen ONE installed on a car.
    DOS (Defenders Of Speed) offered a copper core top mount in late 2010, that was said to be the "end all" of R53 intercoolers.
    I was in the loop about it MONTHS before word was leaked, and was offered to test a prototype, but I was deployed to Iraq at the time, and wouldn't return until after the official release. :(

    The copper core while heavy compared to aluminum has a higher heat transfer rate, and they didnt stop there... The end tanks were bonded thermal plastic which is the same stuff they make intake manifolds out of nowadays. The bar and plate design had the internal sections pinched like the OEM coolers to direct flow through the core, and to not be a bottleneck like lower quality coolers. Then they thermal coated them for maximum results.
    However, like I said they were around $1400 new, and now they are extremely rare! DOS turned into Defender Of Livingroom, and Clint in his infinite wisdom did not sell off the design unfortunately. :(

    If I ever see one on the market, and I have the cash... :D

    You brought up the direct flow coolers, and they are literally the worst thing you could think about doing! I have tried both the Alta, and the M7, both are and have always been garbage!
    Admittedly, I do have an M7 on my R53 right now, until I find the time to build a fixed and fully enclosed diverter for the stock I/C, which is my only option since my hood no longer has the bracing in place to fit the stock plastic diverter top section.

    Running a stock I/C with no diverter at all results in IAT's over 140• on a 60 degree day... BAD IDEA!

    Meth is the best way to go, and has other benefits as well. ;)
     
  16. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

    Nov 8, 2014
    183
    116
    43
    Maintenance Tech
    Rowlett, Tx (Dallas Metro)
    Ratings:
    +116 / 0 / -0
  17. TheModFather

    TheModFather Well-Known Member

    May 15, 2012
    6,023
    5,310
    113
    11 years in the ARMY, 2 years of being a multitale
    North Denver CO.
    Ratings:
    +5,322 / 0 / -0
    Indeed! DOS did it right on the first try, and had actual thermal/mechanical engineers design the thing, they were just too far ahead, and too far out of peoples price range, in a small market to make the sales aspect work. :(
     
  18. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    11,176
    6,176
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +7,891 / 10 / -3
  19. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

    Nov 8, 2014
    183
    116
    43
    Maintenance Tech
    Rowlett, Tx (Dallas Metro)
    Ratings:
    +116 / 0 / -0
  20. TheModFather

    TheModFather Well-Known Member

    May 15, 2012
    6,023
    5,310
    113
    11 years in the ARMY, 2 years of being a multitale
    North Denver CO.
    Ratings:
    +5,322 / 0 / -0
    I dont remember Helix ever producing an I/C for the R53. Pretty sure Erick or Dave will correct me if I am wrong. I know their R56 coolers are the best you can get, and just keep evolving to be better and better, to stay ahead of the game though.
     

Share This Page