Nitro - you have been very helpful to myself in MY thread.. I appreciate all the technical info that has been posted in this thread.
THIS IS GOING TO BE MY ONLY WARNING. KEEP IT ON TOPIC, OR I WILL START DELETING POSTS. LYNN AND SCOTT CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT I MEAN ON THEIR OWN.
I have re-opened this thread as I believe it has useful information. I have taken a hatchet to the posts that lacked such information, or were a detraction to the topic. For those of you who want to get butt hurt about it, the deleted posts included those made by Nathan just to demonstrate that I show no favoritism. Those of you who do not play well with each other need to stop replying to each other's posts. I can write a long paragraph about it, but instead I will just ask you to stop. Why not just have a beer instead? Or a glass of good wine? Thank you all for your co-operation.
Thanks for re-opening. This thread was very useful to myself and hopefully others. Who would have thought that there would be so much mis-information in regards to Poly bushing lube??
I didn't expect this topic to be as heated as it became! 9 pages in, I'll throw in my experience: The factory bushings are usually destroyed by 30k miles, no matter how you drive. If you live on rough roads, plan on replacing them after 10k miles. The factory FCABs are indeed garbage; not only do they break quickly, their modulus is so low they fail to keep the alignment anywhere near stable. There's no reason for this, as almost no NVH is transmitted by going full-on spherical bearing. My recommendations vary depending on chassis. If Madness indeed has discontinued the cro-mo tubular control arms with centered spherical bearings for R50/53, then I am truly saddened as this was among the best products you could possibly upgrade your MINI. I wholeheartedly recommend these to everyone who doesn't want their MINI to suck. If I had to compromise, I'd opt for the ALTA PSRS that have been welded. I'd really struggle to decide how to install them, as the R53 does NOT need any caster or anti-dive adjustment in my opinion. That said, installing them in "half-n-half" position will minimize the overall damage done to the geometry while offering a spherical bearing. I do not recommend any rubber or polyurethane for the R50/53 as the control arm does not pivot on the axis of the FCAB. Rubber or poly bushings will bind during suspension stroke unless they are quite soft, and at that point they are likely not providing sufficient location rigidity to be an improvement over stock. For the R56/55, the choice is much easier. The R56/55 have a serious geometry problem compared to the R50/53. MINI, during a stroke of retarded stupidity, decided to increase torque steer and reduce steering feel [perhaps to match the horrible steering feel of their current-gen 1 and 3 series]. As such, the R56 lacks the level of anti-dive the R53 enjoys. It desperately needs the welded ALTA PSRS for both adding anti-dive and reducing stock-bushing slop. You could opt for Bav Auto offset solid poly to change the geometry as well, however the poly will only get rid of most of the slop, not all like a spherical bearing. Manufacturer recommendations: Madness needs to bring back the R53 cro-mo tubular front control arms, adapt the design for the R56 while adding an offset bearing to fix the R56 geometry. ALTA needs to fix the welding need on the PSRS and also bring out a non-offset design so R53 users can replace their stock without being forced into the much more expensive Madness control arms. Oh, and rubber boot everything so us snow-belt people can actually drive it year round, duh! Thanks, Ryan
Ryan, thanks for weighing in with the facts to support the opinion. I'm going to order some tomorrow.
Lynn, your previous post is an example of going to far. The last paragraph is purely rhetorical and unnecessary. I am leaving it in as an example, but would appreciate if you approached things in a less confrontational manner. Fact does overcome fiction even if not as quickly as prudence would require. Interwebz will be interwebz.
I think most people are referring to this when speaking of binding: [ame=http://www.vimeo.com/5185383]R-50, R53 front control arm bushing. on Vimeo[/ame] In which case only a solid bushing w/ a bearing will act better. Also, if poly is THE choice of bushings, then why is Delrin used so frequently as such ?
KC Jr 54;9572, Now we are getting somewhere, info we can see. Does the ALTA PSRS articulate like the OEM bushing? Darn, those pesky poly bushings just don't cut it do they. Thanks KC jr, good stuff
I can't see the video from my phone. Could someone please describe what it shows? Is it showing the control arm moving through its arc and the stock rubber bushing distorting as it gets flexed and pulled off its axis? Did I write something incompletely? My statement is true because the control arm does not pivot on-axis with the FCAB position. As such, rubber, polyurethane, delrin, or anything that doesn't pivot freely is an improper design for the application. Yes, even BMW fails to do things correctly sometimes. Like I said, the R56 fixes this FCAB binding problem, however it's at the expense of reduced anti-dive which adds torque steer. Regards, Ryan
Ryan, it shows a Bavarian Autosport Bushing, which does not have a rotating center like a PFlex bushing. onasled places weights on the end of the LCA to illustrate bind and the increase in spring rate. He had never seen any other FLCA poly bushing before and is making an assumption that all behave that way, which is not the case. I have not seen it in some time, but he needs to update with accurate comments. The poly bushings like Madness and Pflex will bind at top and bottom of the vertical range, but not like that, and over time this becomes less of an issue. I’m not a fan of poly bushing for this application, but onasled’s video is misleading.