Suspension Brakes 1st Gen Front Control Arm Bushing, what brand do you use?

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by M^Cubed, Aug 19, 2009.

  1. Mike

    Mike New Member

    May 4, 2009
    403
    3
    0
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    I'm not Norm, but I know those compounds.

    retaining compound: also known as "sleeve retainer", they are compounded specifically for holding bushings and bearing races in place.

    242: also known as "blue loctite" or "medium strength", it is used when the screws should be removable without applying heat to the joint. A good choice with set screws, as the heads often strip out if one uses the stronger stuff (red loctite, 271).

    BTW, I recently removed my PSRS, complete with loctite package, due to a rattling noise. In my case, I had defeated the loose sleeve noise, only to find that one of the plastic pillow balls within the unit itself had enough play to cause an annoying rattle. I replaced them with Powerflex bushings. To be honest, the only differences I have noticed are the slight change in steering effort (different caster) and the blessed silence.
     
  2. Norm03s

    Norm03s New Member

    May 5, 2009
    4,936
    534
    0
    Working at being retired.
    Somewhere in Sykesville. Md.
    Ratings:
    +534 / 0 / -0
    That's interesting;
    Haven't placed that order yet.
     
  3. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
    Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    8,767
    2,547
    113
    Bend, OR USA
    Ratings:
    +2,678 / 1 / -0
    This is the first time I have heard of this occurring.

    Could it be attributed to the track use?
     
  4. Nitrominis

    Nitrominis Banned

    May 9, 2009
    1,217
    61
    0
    Doing nothing
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Ratings:
    +61 / 0 / -0
    #124 Nitrominis, Sep 6, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
    ..
     
  5. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
    Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    8,767
    2,547
    113
    Bend, OR USA
    Ratings:
    +2,678 / 1 / -0
    #125 ScottinBend, Sep 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2009
    While Mike seems to have had a rattle issue with one, Ryan has had no problems. I would love to get a bit more info from Mike as to why he feels the part was rattling......track use, defective part, normal wear (how many miles on it?), bad design?
     
  6. M^Cubed

    M^Cubed Member

    May 24, 2009
    315
    12
    18
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0
    Track specific parts do seem to take more abuse from daily driving. Most tracks are much smoother than the daily streets we drive.
     
  7. Mike

    Mike New Member

    May 4, 2009
    403
    3
    0
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Just the facts, ma'am:

    My PSRS bushings had about 15000 miles on them when removed. They did not got through any accidents, but they did go to the track, and they did experience iffy track surfaces and some aggressive use of the curbing.

    I live in a strange transition zone between mountains and the Mojave desert. The weather is VERY unkind to the roads, and the county does not or cannot keep up with the maintenance. Some of the roads are really torn up. It is bad enough that it regularly knocks the alignment on my Miata out - it's a good thing I can check and realign it myself. It is possible that these roads contributed to the wear of the left-side PSRS.

    My opinions: The sleeve rattles on the control arm unless something is done to prevent this. My solution was to inject Loctite 271 using a syringe into the space between every hex flat and the sleeve. I did this in lieu of pulling the subframe and either using welding or metal-filled epoxy. The Loctite treatment left large bonded fillets between each hex point and the sleeve, and it eliminated the noise, until the left-side pillow ball became loose in the bushing assembly.
     
  8. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
    Lifetime Supporter

    May 4, 2009
    3,532
    2,896
    113
    Professional Facilitator and Alignment Consultant
    Holly Springs, NC
    Ratings:
    +2,896 / 0 / -0
    hmmmmm..... I do a pretty good job of dodging the potholes on the street... but I hit the curbs on purpose on the track... am I doing something wrong? :arf:

    Good discussion, as I'm going to be doing something with my bushing soon...
     
  9. goaljnky

    goaljnky New Member

    Apr 7, 2009
    3,105
    394
    0
    LaLaLand, Left Coast, Overpopulated and Underfunde
    Ratings:
    +394 / 0 / -0
    Thank you all for your continued contributions to this thread. I have deleted several posts that had nothing to do with the part being discussed. I ask once again that everyone stay on topic. Those of you who obviously don't get along need to move to the opposite corners of the sandbox and stop provoking and replying to each other.
     
  10. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
    Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    8,767
    2,547
    113
    Bend, OR USA
    Ratings:
    +2,678 / 1 / -0
    Not sure where you got the idea that the PSRS was a track specific product?

    For Mike.....do you have any opinion on why the bushing got loose?

    Are you suggesting that the bushing will become loose if you securely attach the sleeve to the arm?

    I live in the same kind of area as you do...the high desert of OR. Very cold winters and hot summers. We can get a swing of 50° temp in a day, so the roads around here get abused as well. I have about the same miles as you do on my PSRS with 3 track days. Should I be concerned about the bushing getting loose?
     
  11. Mike

    Mike New Member

    May 4, 2009
    403
    3
    0
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    No, I am not suggesting that securing the sleeve results in a loose bushing. Not at all.

    I have not tried to take the bushings apart, so I can't compare dimensions of the parts of the two bushings. I would imagine, though, that desert sand got into the bushings. The abrasive contamination combined with the severe punishment of the roads here probably did them in.

    If you are driving in similar conditions, then yes, I think sooner or later you'll get that noise.
     
  12. Norm03s

    Norm03s New Member

    May 5, 2009
    4,936
    534
    0
    Working at being retired.
    Somewhere in Sykesville. Md.
    Ratings:
    +534 / 0 / -0
    #132 Norm03s, Sep 8, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
    So the joint is open to the environment, over here 0n the Mid Atlantic east coast we get salted roads in the Winter. Anyone else experienced Alta Positive Steering Response System joint noise problems drmike had?
     
  13. M^Cubed

    M^Cubed Member

    May 24, 2009
    315
    12
    18
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    Just a general statement.. not directed at the PSRS, but..... now that you mention it - WHAT is it for if not for spirited driving / racing ? The descriptions and the way you can dial it in make it sound like a performance gain, not a comfort gain.
     
  14. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
    Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    8,767
    2,547
    113
    Bend, OR USA
    Ratings:
    +2,678 / 1 / -0
    It is a perfromance gain, but it is not marketed as a track piece. Just a better designed part than the OEM. And as far as I am concerned with my experience it is a comfort gain also, no more wishy-washy feel and much better braking feed-back. And with the added caster the road doesn't req. as much steering correction to stay on line.

    With my 14k miles on mine I have yet to discern any negative NVH.
     
  15. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
    Motoring Alliance Sponsor

    Sep 8, 2009
    227
    6
    0
    water science and mapping, and suspesnion and brak
    Columbia, MD
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0
    #135 andyroo, Sep 10, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2009
    The Alta PSRS says it adds anti-lift....but I'm not sure it does. IF it lowers the rear mounting point of the control arm, it's reducing anti-lift and anti-dive....meaning the car is actually lifting more.

    Which in my opinion IS a good thing and should help put power down coming out of corners as it's softening the front suspension. I would prefer this actually.

    It's just that Alta doesn't know what it's doing. They have this same problem with their Subaru kit...it lowers the rear mount of the front control arm....making the car lift more, and yet they get the description wrong and say it does the opposite.

    I'm not saying it's a bad part by any means. And I could be wrong...i'd like to see a better pic of it installed. From what i can tell though....

    This paper explains anti-lift kits quite well:
    http://www.whiteline.com.au/articles/Effect%20of%20WL%20ALK_b.pdf

    I'm still trying to decide what i want to go with...my car just passed 30k miles. I haven't been happy in the past with a spherical bearing at that location on other cars due to NVH, but maybe it's not so bad. I would be happy with a little extra caster.

    - Andrew
     
  16. Ryephile

    Ryephile New Member

    Apr 9, 2009
    299
    122
    0
    Yes!
    Metro Detroit
    Ratings:
    +122 / 0 / -0
    andyroo; you can install the PSRS in any orientation you choose, as you press it into the chassis mount. Their instructions indicate added positive caster and/or reducing anti-lift, regardless what their verbage claims. Like you said, ALTA is a bit lagging behind in the theory department.
     
  17. Norm03s

    Norm03s New Member

    May 5, 2009
    4,936
    534
    0
    Working at being retired.
    Somewhere in Sykesville. Md.
    Ratings:
    +534 / 0 / -0
    andyroo, we are practically neighbors and still trying to decide what i want to go with too.
     
  18. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
    Motoring Alliance Sponsor

    Sep 8, 2009
    227
    6
    0
    water science and mapping, and suspesnion and brak
    Columbia, MD
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0
    ^ whoever gets theirs first needs to give the other person a ride. :lol:

    - andrew
     
  19. M^Cubed

    M^Cubed Member

    May 24, 2009
    315
    12
    18
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0
    I received a new set of FCAB's (sold the BAVAUTO off-sets) - they look fairly decent.

    The note on the invoice states "use anti-seize"... After this thread, I defiantly will not be using Anti-Seize. I'll be trying to get some of the stuff Nitro got here when I get closer to installing the bushings - which should be pretty soon since the car is starting to pull to the right and under braking it is pretty extreme.
     
  20. phydeaux

    phydeaux New Member

    May 5, 2009
    185
    1
    0
    Maple Valley, WA
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    OK, I'm convinced that I need to do something. Everything mentioned about the feel is spot on. At 78K+ miles, I'm sure that once I get in there and replace the OEM, I'm going to find they are utterly destroyed.

    From what I've read (yep, went through all 14 pages, and each and every post), I'm leaning toward the PSRS. Daily (sometimes spirited) driver, occasional auto-x.

    Is there a particularly compelling argument to go with a bushing style replacement instead of the PSRS? Or has it all pretty much been hashed out, and comes down to mostly personal preference?
     

Share This Page