Suspension Brakes 1st Gen Front Sway Bars?

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by wzabrouski, Aug 2, 2010.

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  1. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    When the outside tire is compressed up in a turn a sway bar lifts up on the inside tire. To a point this keeps that end flatter in the turn but the stiffer the bar the quicker you can go by that point and actually loose grip/traction. A stiffer rear bar helps the car turn better by not just making the rear slide around but by keeping it flatter it actually keeps more downforce on the inside front, a stiffer front bar takes some of that effect away. But as mentioned before it depends on the balance front to rear that you want to achieve for a particular use. 2 cents
     
  2. mini_racer

    mini_racer Well-Known Member

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    #22 mini_racer, Aug 4, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2010
    As far as MINI suspension upgrades go, although debatable, most would agree that a larger rear bar is a high priority and maybe even the first thing to do. Likewise, a front bar change is way down the mod priority list to the point where it is often not really considered.

    Of course everyone has their own priority list so YMMV.
     
  3. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

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    Thank you for the advice. The violent driving technique certainly adds to the push. I did not think a larger front bar would help. Wedge would probably help in the one corner I was discussing, but screw the car up everywhere else. I need to learn slow in fast out with autocross driving techniques. Stand on the brakes and live with the upset chassis. Autocross setups are just different, but autocrossing definitely teaches you two things. Learn the course quick, and jump on the tire.
     
  4. Nitrominis

    Nitrominis Banned

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    Don't forget that the tires you choose have a large effect on everything previously mentioned. A well part of tuning your suspension and should really be included with consideration with the chosen sway bar size and its adjustments.

    Those poor black soft round things are always under estimated.

    ********************************************************
     
  5. wzabrouski

    wzabrouski Active Member

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    Currently have stock shocks with jcw springs, 19mm rear bar, front and rear tsw end links, upper and lower front stress bars, m7 uss with new bridgestone potenza re760 sports. Up until a couple of weeks ago, had koni yellows with h-sports.

    I guess I am searching for what I lost when I swapped out the h-sports. Jcw springs have been a huge improvement in predictability compared to the h-sports.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    Do feel that it understeers?
     
  7. Nitrominis

    Nitrominis Banned

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    #27 Nitrominis, Aug 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2010
    Talk to racers or vendors that...

    actually both sell and race a track MINI. Any advise coming from anyone else may not serve best for you. The art of suspension and the proper method of setting a car up comes from experience. There are some fantastic books on handling that might be better served to find and read. A fantastic reference recently released in publication was:

    The New MINI Performance Handbook. SA182
    Chapter #3 Improving Handling
    There is a great interview with Jeff and Scott Bibbee from Texas Speedwerks (TSW) on MINI Suspension.

    Nathan will post where to look for it so that Motor Alliance gets some credit for it?

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/New-Mini-Performance-Handbook-How/dp/193470914X"]Amazon.com: The New Mini Performance Handbook (Performance How-To) (9781934709146): Jeffrey Zurschmeide: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gjlzhnubL.@@AMEPARAM@@51gjlzhnubL[/ame]
     
  8. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

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    Two words: camber plates. There's more than one way to dial out understeer.
     
  9. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    Two very good words!!! ;)
     
  10. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

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    A lot of people say the first modification should be a rear bar. I agree it makes a big difference, but I think the first change should be camber plates.
     
  11. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    Was for me...

    but it's more complicated because you need to get an alignement after you install them. With a rear bar, you bolt it up and go.

    Anyway, I got the RDR (now Helix) camber plates as my very first mod!

    Matt
     
  12. Batrugger

    Batrugger New Member

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    I love this post. I see a lot of people on the forums advising against front bars in the MINI community and I think it is due to the popularity of autocrossing. I love that the two road racers on here are affirming their value on the track and road.
     
  13. Vader

    Vader New Member

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    #33 Vader, Aug 6, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2010
    Yes, I have the H-sport

    Same setting here.

    I have done it all. H-sport front and rear, replaced all bushings, Coilovers, Camber plates, chassis braces, adj end links (all TSW). The front bar was a necessary addition to the other parts. This car is STIFF and handles just about as neutral as you can get in FWD.
     
  14. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    how's it do

    cornering hard on rough surfaces?

    I don't think people are down on front sway bars because of autoX, I think it has to do with a lot of stuff.

    It's a harder install.

    It's only really appropriate after you've done a lot of other stuff elsewhere on the car.

    Too stiff on the street is just bad for traction.

    If you take all this stiffening to an illogical extreme, you just bolt your suspension into a fixed location and you're done. this is stupid for sure. The question about what is improvement and when you cross over to degradation isn't fixed, but depends on how the car is used, the surfaces it's driven on, and personal preference.

    Matt
     
  15. mini_racer

    mini_racer Well-Known Member

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    :Thumbsup:
    Exactly, and so changing the front bar is much closer to the bottom of the prioritized list of appropriate suspension mods for the MINI instead of the top (i.e. rear bar or front camber plates for example).

    For those few actual racers out there, a front bar can be of great value, but for the rest of us mere mortals.......I have many other things on my list first.
     
  16. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Matt for the succinct summary. :Thumbsup:
     
  17. Justa Jim

    Justa Jim Well-Known Member
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    This has been a very interesting thread. The front bar had not made it to my list yet and now it won't, as it would not fit my type of driving. Now I can add something else with the money I just saved. :Thumbsup:

    Jim
     
  18. beaner

    beaner New Member

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    ^^save money by not purchasing something that wasn't on your "list". Perfect rationalization that only an enthusiast could understand!:Thumbsup:
     
  19. bee1000

    bee1000 New Member

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    I bought into Way's logic and love the results. Adding a smaller rear sway bar with the stock front bar will reduce understeer, but replacing both bars as Way suggested makes the entire car stiff and more responsive.

    An H-Sport front with the Competition rear is amazing. It's almost certainly overkill for my daily driver, but if you can scrape your pennies together to do everything right the first time, it's the way to go. The few times I've taken my R53 to the mountains since the install at AMVIV I have been really, really happy. In short, my car is bad ass. See my garage for everything else Way did to it.

    As for installation, in southern California, Mini Corsa's web site lists a cost of $275. Not bad at all.
     
  20. btwdriver

    btwdriver New Member

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    So will a larger front sway bar help keep the inside wheel planted when cornering? I currently have the problem of the inside wheel lifting almost completely off the ground under hard cornering. The image below doesn't show this very well, but it was the only one that I could find.

    [​IMG]
     

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