Engine Drivetrain 1st Gen Cooper S Most liked posts in thread: G-Force Chip - Real or Rip Off

Beat me to it! LOL

 

Mythbusters Turbonator

"The EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) and the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) both test and scrutinize products which claim better fuel efficiency like the Turbonator, Tornado and other similar vortex generators. They fully tested the Turbinator and Tornado along with many other products. In their findings not one of these vortex generators ever produced any gain whatsoever in either horsepower or fuel economy. Not one."



Also look at this:

"The large degree of fuel economy variance means that due to psychological factors of selective perception, consumers can be mislead as to the effectiveness of a device."

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_saving_devices"]Wikimedia Error[/ame]




Nathan thank you for the information, I would not have thought to look at that aspect nor would I have had any idea how to do it? I look at the product itself and the surface claims by manufacture/suppliers if there is merit to there function of claim.

 

But they really DO like me... because, and I quote, "I've never had a man equipped like you before".

:devil:

 

How to do this crap right

if you really want to play with it.

with the car running, look at the voltage you get across the temp sensor. You need to use a high impedance meter to do this, so the measurement doesn't screw the pooch.

Then get some resistors, hack into the wiring to get to the temp leads. Try resistors until you get one that matches the stock voltage across it.

To get fancy, get a potentiometer that goes to about 1.5x or 2x the resistor you chose.

Try different settings with the thing, going in about 10%-20% steps, and use your favorite performance meter to log the differences. Be careful in your testing because very small amounts of heat soak will mask any benefit (I've found that idling for anything longer than about 20-30 seconds will start to sap a HP or two on a power run).

Now, here's are the problems. The power delta will depend on ambient conditions because the car will now think that the intake temps are one thing, and this changes based on ambient temps and the like. What one is doing is tuning A/F a bit. There may be a bit of benefit from using gas as a water injection system as well (tried and true way of keeping boosted engines happy). But really, all one is doing is blinding the ECU to some real world changes, and then not letting the ECU do some of the conservative things that it's programmed to do because it's a street car.

As far as the commercail thing, not everyone uses the same temp sensor, so how the heck can one resistance value cover all cars? If you get given one of these suckers, and want to screw with it, have at it. But if you want the full WOT benefit of fixing IAT inputs, you're not gonna get it with this sucker.


Now Mike, I totally understand the desire for real world application knowledge, and I'm sorry that second hand isn't good enough for you. But really, you've got to at least have a basic understanding of how something works. Think of this as an electronic equivalent of changing the jets in a carb a little bit, without all the problems of poor atomization that too large a jet gives you. But what you are getting is a slight permenant change in jet size to a fixed size, instead of the dynamically sized jet equivalent that computer controlled FI can give you. With a crappy tune this might get you a tad of power. With a good tune, it will do nothing but degrate performance in some situations.

And one comment on the marketing, any gain >0 but less than or equal to 60 hp is totally consistant with thier marketing claims. And you can be the ones that lost power don't post on the site!

If you really want to lie to the ECU and change fuel without an ECU tune, get one of those Apexi units that can keep the dynamic nature of FI in play and not just lock down the ECU. Before the ECU was cracked, a lot of people ran the Apexi to good benefit. It's more than $60, but at least it works better.

Matt

 

Matt........
That's kind of interesting what you proposed about adding a potentiometer. So if you had a A/F gage as a mod, this setup might allow you to make small manual adjustments to the richness while driving?

 

Paul, it does not say "equipped as well as you before". Might want to re-examine what she was trying to say. :cryin:

 

That really can be taken to mean "as big" or "as small". :lol:

Jim

 

Thanks.

Jim

 

SOOoooooo.... no one has used this thing?? However there are a few that have strong opinions on its power increases ( as to how much vs the cost of a 15Cent resistor) yes??

But I guess $70.50 Per HP is a good thing....
or $80.00 Per HP is a good thing...
or maybe $95.00 Per HP is a rocking deal!!??

And yet NO one here has stated any actual results ( with their use on a MINI, not a freaking 54 studabaker..) with the G Force!! Bummer.

To those that really want to have an idea on the power increase, I guess it ain't happening. For those that like to be upset because they didnt think of it first.. and get stupid money for it, then this is the place!!

I have one and in the future I will test it and see what it does on my Un tuned 06. Till then it is still a mystery!!

PS:
item 1 is a Schrick camshaft
item 2 is a Header
Item 3 is a catback system.

K&N says "UP to 10 HP increase" ??
Tunes say 25-30 HP.??
Shell oil say it cleans your valves and give the best gas mileage.??
Spark plugs ( 15.00 each ) give you MORE power.??

See what I mean?? advertising is all misleading!! LOL
Tpr.

 

Sometimes you just don't have to pick a turd up and roll it around in your hand to know it's crap.... Of course if one insist, have at it.

 

But according to previously mentioned Myth Busters, it is possible to polish a turd:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBj6PonX14A]YouTube - MYTHBUSTERS are going to Polish SHIT.......... they have gone nuts, remastered by NiteAngel[/ame]

 

Ok so you can polish processed poop, but not a turd. Nice dinner party trivia!

 

Nate.. sorry to upset!

BUT... if no one has said what theirs did ( and you know there are a few out there...) then all the rest is just that. .Sometimes you just don't have to pick a turd up and roll it around in your hand to know it's crap....

I have no idea.. thus the posed question. WHO has experience vs just what they Think and feel. the way it is described.. it works!! If not, then you get 100% refund. IF you dont like it , unplug and the ECU goes back where it was. Y'all even said it will work.

But this is all good... I have one from a trade out, and like I said, I will test and see, If it works, then dandy, if not.. nothing lost save 20 minutes of my time. Funny there was no comments on the dollar to power I gave..

But I guess $70.50 Per HP is a good thing....
or $80.00 Per HP is a good thing...
or maybe $95.00 Per HP is a rocking deal!!??

like they say .. if you dont stick your neck out, you will not get ahead". Or maybe that was a turtle.

LOL all I did is push for an answer, and not follow the "BS" .. still no ACTUAL results, so cool!! I can live with that...

Just me.....................................

Thumper

 

Here's where you're wrong on that...

I spent quite a bit of time talking to someone who did it right. You just won't trust that because it's not my experience. Fine that's OK, but when you say no real experience, that's just not correct. You're saying no experience that you'll listen to.

Anyway, have at it and let us know what you find out.

Matt

ps, what would you say to someone who said "Install this bigger power valve in your Holley 4-bbl. It will always makes more power, all cars all applications!" You'd think they smoke crack often, or didn't know what they were talking about. You'd even grant that there were some set-ups where it would actually help, but you wouldn't say the approach is correct, you'd say tune your car properly and you will have the correct jets, float level and power valve in you Holley. This is exactly the same thing.

 

I see both sides of this argument...

Everyone is blasting this product but nobody, by their own admission, has hands on knowledge because nobody knows what it A.) Really does and B.) Really is.

There is theory and speculation, but nobody has actually tried it to see if it works or not.

I understand the other side as well as there are MINI folks here with a ton more experience than me telling why they wouldn't do it. I would be very hesitant to try it because of the opinions and comments here that made me think about how they are touting a computer chip for cars that never had computers...

That kind of logic is hard [read: impossible] to argue with.

 

I know exactly what it is and what it does...

Mike, pop the cover off, and get a good high resolution photo of the top of the chip (if they left the identifiers on it), or just measure the resistance between the pins that the wires are soldered to. Heck, just measure the resistance across the wires! This isn't a "computer chip" it's a resitor network. That's lots of individual resistors in a single package to free up board space on about 1970s technology (the package type tells me this). This is a passive, not active, device. It probably retails for about a quarter. In single quantities.

Matt

 

ps, what would you say to someone who said "Install this bigger power valve in your Holley 4-bbl. It will always makes more power, all cars all applications!" You'd think they smoke crack often, or didn't know what they were talking about. You'd even grant that there were some set-ups where it would actually help, but you wouldn't say the approach is correct, you'd say tune your car properly and you will have the correct jets, float level and power valve in you Holley. This is exactly the same thing.
__________________
Dr.. Power valves in Holly carbs have nothing with some one saying that an item is junk ( maybe not the correct word, yes), with out experience.. just conjecture.

A power valve is a vac operated item, and if some one suggested a bigger power valve , his whole idea is incorrect, and yes I would show him the correct terms and how it works. Or the difference between a 3.5 and am 8.5 hg power valves, where the valve is opened and when it starts to open and also when it is max open. How the vac works on launch- mid- range and thru the top end. And the reason it is called a "POWER Valve " to a gear Head and an "economizer Valve " to mpg stock driver.

I do understand the way this gizmo works, thanks to the posts.. I just ( only wanted ) to know of ANY actual experience.. and it seems there is none! Yes?

I am like most.. tight on money, and if there is an idea out there that will allow more power, then I will research and ( do to the web) ask for any knowledge on the item. These cars are expensive to mod.. and input is the key!! yes? that being said, there is a lot of the "NO it wont, its Junk" out there also, usually from people that have NO experience with it. That is the reason I kept asking ..." have you used it!" and the answer is Nope!! So now I will see for myself... wouldn't it be funny if it pulled more torque from 2500-4500 revs by "tricking the ECU" into thinking the air is colder, and allowing more ign timing??
We have been doing that for ever.. cold T-stats, Iced Fuel cans, icing the intake manifolds, methinol, so we can run more ign timing and build more power. Nothing new here just a different way of doing it. yes?

To all that think I am an ass for asking for experiance..... and not following the crowd, sorry. It is like changing cam phase.. water-meth.. or other issues that are not the norm, but huge power makers!!

Just me.....................................

Thumper

PS.. if it works!! and it is only 15 cents.. then why not show us all how to do it... remember when you could increase pressure for the the shift points in the Ford C4 trans with just a cotter pin??!! I ran one of those mods for years back in the day, when most shift kits cost 50.00!! just a thought..

 

A simple Google search on using a resistor to trick the ECU will yield tons of information from a variety of sources so an engineering degree would not be necessary for the discussion. The results are mixed at best and might be described as a band aid for proper tuning techniques. To call this a "computer chip" is nothing but misleading and down right fraudulent. I for one would not and will not purchase or support an entity doing business in this fashion. Nor would I install something based on their claims on my car...........at least not without a double layer of nitrile gloves on. LOL

 

Just a thought here. The things you mentioned above actually lowered the intake air temp, so that is not the same as tricking the ECU to think "hot" air is "cold" is it?

Jim