Most liked posts in thread: Gas Prices in Ca today

Well I gladley pay $8.00 + a gallon at the Dragon for 100 octane race fuel.

FYI the gas at the end of the dragon is ethanol free.

 

Seems that Thomas Jefferson dude was spot on all along.....

 

Nathan we have two diametrically opposing views in the US, one that thinks companies and individuals should aspire too self reliance and another that believes Government can bring about equalization through wealth redistribution. The latter being the easy road for many politicians because they can buy their position and office through promises of money for nothing... I contend that equalization is an unnatural and unobtainable state because without a ruling class to run it, an equalized society would rapidly become kaos...and if there is a ruling class, there is not true equalization.... I'll call it my " Roberts Theory of Societal Equalization." I'm working on the equation now...lol

At the rate we are going, how long do you think this will continue to be the best place to live?

 

Thank you Minidave, now it is your turn to post an idea or two and not just rant at the rants.

 

The thing about the Keystone pipeline project is that it will take the oil from Canada to the Gulf Coast where all the refineries are. While that in it's self is not a bad thing it is also where the ports are too. Whats to say this is not a ploy by the crafty Canucks to get their oil to deep-water ports to be shipped overseas.

If it was excess capacity that we here in the US and of course Canada are not using that would be one thing. Great for all, but if the oil is going to bypass our use and be sent oversea's all we are doing is providing a conduit over our land for the Canadians.

I have nothing against Canada or Canadians as a whole, my biggest consulting client in terms of overall billable hours and income is Canadian.

 

Then we need to say if you build the pipeline 75% of the oil refined by us has to be for domistic use

 

When was the last time the government issued a permit to build a refinery here in the US and how long does it take to get one?

 

I was listening to a Radio program yesterday about the price of oil. They said that right now the U.S. has excess production capacity for gasoline, so that is not an issue in the price of oil.

The main things contributing to high gas prices is demand for oil in developing countries and reduced production of crude oil in the middle east, Iran is selling less oil due to the economic embargo, and Libya has not returned to full capacity since their revolution.

Dave

 

March 16, 2012
Shell Oil Co. has chosen a site near Pittsburgh for a major, multibillion-dollar petrochemical refinery that could provide a huge economic boost to the region.

Dan Carlson, Shell's general manager of new business development, said Thursday that the company signed a land option agreement with Horsehead Corp. to evaluate a site near Monaca, about 35 miles northwest of Pittsburgh.

The so-called ethane cracking, or "cracker," plant would convert ethane from bountiful Marcellus Shale natural gas liquids into more profitable chemicals such as ethylene, which are then used to produce everything from plastics to tires to antifreeze.

The plants are called crackers because they use heat and other processes to break the ethane molecules into smaller chemical components. A cracker plant looks similar to a gasoline refinery, with miles of pipes and large storage tanks. The final complex could cover several hundred acres.

Full Story at Shell Picks Pittsburgh Area For Major Refinery : NPR

 

Sweet!!

Where was the last new oil refinery for making gasoline built and when?

 

See When was the last refinery built in the United States? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

In Short...

It's been awhile...

 

...and two out of the last five are currently owned by Petro. UMMMM....

Then the newest significant refinery started operations in....1977?

 

Before we get all caught up in US Refinery capacity keep this little fact in mind.

We currently have more capacity than we need to keep the US awash in Gas, Diesel and Jet Fuel.

We have become a net exporter in refined petroleum products.

Tossing out some of the more left and right wing articles I found out there...

These make for interesting reads...

As gas prices rise, should US oil industry stop exporting? - CSMonitor.com

Gas Pains? U.S. Diesel, Gas Exports Surpass Imports : NPR

U.S. Nears Milestone: Net Fuel Exporter - WSJ.com

So why do we export so much when we have to import this oil and we have the highest costs to refine?

It's expensive to start and stop a refinery. Keeping it running 24/7/365 helps to keep the overall cost low.

Due to the economic slowdown we have here we can't use all the the refineries can produce. It makes sense to the refinery operator to keep them running and sell the fuel overseas.

Follow the bouncing ball here. we sell refined products to Norway and Singapore, just a few of the places we ship refined product too. So that Supertanker fills up with crude in Saudi Arabia. Empties the load to the refiners on the Gulf Coast. The fills back up with refined products and takes them to Singapore before heading back to the Middle East to complete the circle.

I don't know about you but that just sounds stupid when you say it out loud.

Yet the parties involved are making money at it while we suffer $4.00 gas.

The planets energy policy needs an overhaul, not just the US.

I wish I knew how to fix it. I could spout a holier than thou bit that I live in a City Center where I can walk to a lot of things I need. I work from home removing the commute oil costs too. But that is MY choice. We should all have choice such as this.

 

I read last week the Marcus-Hook refinery closed it gates after 110 years of operation in Pennsylvania, 590 workers lost their jobs, two other Philly area refineries are shutting down this year. These three plants alone account for one half the refining capacity in the northeast.
The main reason sited for closure was EPA with tougher and more stringent guidelines.

 

Before we get into the EPA being a job killer keep this in mind...

These sites could not easily retrofit to meet the new requirements. Lets face facts, many of these newer requirements for cleaner fuels are a good idea in the long run. Some of us are old enough to remember some serious smog. Some of these regulation such as the Clinton Administration mandating the diesel get cleaned up really do help. We went from 500PPM sulfur to 15PPM sulfur in diesel mimicking the EU regulations.

In turn the refineries along the Gulf Coast spent billions retrofitting the facilities they have. This led to net gain in capacity of 37% above what these refiners could produce previously and made the product suitable for export to the EU.

 

Could the $550 million lost in Solyndra have been better spent helping this refinery meet the new standards, thus saving a company and the jobs there with the side benefit of maintaining the refining capacity in the North East? Heck, they probably would have even paid the money back....

Better investment?

PS: Forgot Fisker, add that in and we could have invested over $1BILLION to save an already American energy producer and the American jobs that go along with it.

Which would fit into a good energy policy for America?

Which would have had a better chance in effecting gas prices?

 

Yup the old Chevron, Gulf now Sunoco plants are all closing here in the Philly.

 

I know I am not blaming EPA entirely, but they are not helping.

Cleaning up diesel I agree was a good thing, but why don't they allow more of the highly efficient smaller engines to be imported into the US.

During the spike in gas during the Bush years he offered up some of the closed military bases as sites to build new highly efficient refineries.

They have just approved a new nuclear plant after what 30 years, to say the Fed moves slow is a little bit of a understatement,( what do you want to bet it will never be built.)