I have tested the splitter on the track at speeds over 130 mph with great results. Here is what I suggest. [I]First of all though is our philosophy. Better to risk tearing up the grille with the downforce at track speeds than the bumper.[/I] My suggestion for the 100 MPH+ group is to remove the bumper cover to access the rear of the grille. Then reinforce the grille so that it doesn't flex. I used 3/16th vertical aluminum strips and 2-ton epoxy to spread the load. Then replace the bumper cover. The splitter generates significant downforce at high speed (meaning higher than highway speed) and, at those speeds, a stronger bond is necessary.
Maybe someone could come up with a lightweight (maybe aluminum) non-flexible grill to go along with the splitter? That may be a reach, but instructions on how to do that little mod, and even better yet, access to those aluminum strips would be VERY welcome for those of us not bright enough to come up with solutions like that--I'd be willing to pay extra, no problem. BTW you have one quick little MINI there if you're routinely hitting 130+, that's impressive! I'm comfortably in the 100+ group; I usually don't accelerate past 120 though, mainly due to issues that I think will get solved with more downforce. But it looks like I'll be in line for reinforcing the splitter connections too.... Had a a very nice talk with Mark yesterday--learned a ton, also learned a little bit more behind what's going on--as soon as the exhaust situation is figured out, and the removable splitter discussion sorted out, this stuff is going on. I'm looking at doing the exhaust first, then splitter/rear diffuser, then eventually the underpanels and the GP like adjustable wing, maybe canards and side panels too, when that's all sorted out. Anyway, great work guys--anyone interested in these parts should give these guys a call; there is great information to be had....
Hey Jay, Nice pleasant surprise to see you last weekend. Glad you made it up for the Clean-up Party. Could you try testing a change on your splitter mount for me and then retesting at the same speeds? Can you realign the angle of your turnbuckles to a straight vertical position from the front view? I am thinking that the angle they are presently position in, allows the splitter to flex up and down. They look good on that angle, but we now have an open triangle which is allowing flexing. By straighten the TBs we should be tighten the triangle, more resistant to flex. Joel
Ok here is what I have done because I love to mod and tinker with things untill they are 100% perfect to my liking. Yes I am the "D" (Dave) in OCD! ut: Behind my top t-bar mounts I have made it even stronger. I do agree with G4 that I would rather replace a $40.00 plastic cheap a$$ lower grill insert than spend $450.00 or so on a front bumper after repair / replacement, paint + labor. So what I have done is add a approx. 2 inch wide piece of metal, (thin gauge) but not aluminum foil thin. I vertically mounted it behind the grill. It is completely behind the grill section without the grill holes so it cannot be seen. I wrapped and mounted it to the bumper with epoxy. Now with the t-bar top mount going through the lower grill and through the "Dave bar" it disperses the stress & load on plastic grill. Now the grill is just another BMW / MINI $40 plastic washer. See real OEM for grill: RealOEM.com BMW R53 Cooper S Trim panel, bumper, front Cooper S 05 Grille 1 Mini Part # 51117068396 $39.63 Now I can stand on my splitter (and have by mistake :crazy:) and the bad boy does move at all. :frown2::cornut: Please let me add a word to the wise or not so wise.rrr: This is a real functional aero part, not a JDM hoopdee style lip on a 1998 Honda Civic. You need to respect your new found front grip especially if you only have only installed the splitter. I would highly advise you to not make high-speed turns or long sweepers without the rest of the aero kit properly installed. If you are going to do it anyhow (like me :rolleyes5 at least "pratace / test" your new found "front only grip" before doing it for real in real world traffic. The reason is you only have installed the front part 1/3 of the complete G4 aero package. (Part 2 Wing & Part 3 Rear Diffuser) I took my car out on the auto cross track ABF / Mini day in Philly a weekend ago and the front grip was effing incredible! But I did notice if I tried to turn in at high speeds like I have done before in the past the car does not rotate as well as it did in the past. Case in point I would either plow in the front because I was braking too late or the rear end breaks loose and comes around quickly. Yes some of this problem was caused by my driving ability (I AM NOT THE STIG) and being VERY aggressive but it was also because I do not have the full G4 aero package installed. (yet!) opcorn:
ocDave. If you get a chance (and I know this will require removing something) can you take and post some pics?
Someday I may take it off (front bumper) and post up some pictures but not anytime in the near future. :nonod: I dont feel like playing / tinkering with the car anymore. It time to go out play, drive and have fun with all my mods and goobs of HP. Cape May N.J. beach run tomorrow. :cornut::ihih::devil:
Jay said 80 and you say 130 mph. At what speeds will the splitter and wing show any help? Would they make a difference on the Dragon, where you are not really flying? Jim
I think that's out of context--Graham took it to 130+, meaning that it's functional and stays put on the high end. From what I understand, it will make a difference at speeds much lower than that--basically highway speeds or slightly faster--but it'll function to 130+, although at those speeds it looks like you're going to need a little reenforcement. But there's been some other good point made here--these things function together; just putting a splitter on is going to be alot different then combining it with a rear diffuser and spoiler.
All of the aero devices that we make are designed to make the car stick using downforce in the 60 - 100 mph range. After that speed we want less downforce and drag. More top-end speed. That's why it's important for the high-speed airflow to "miss", let's say, go over, the rear downforce generators in the rear wing assembly. Having said all of that, there is still enough residual downforce to create stability at high-speed.
I see the positive side of having additional down force and understand that both front and read devices need to be used togeather. I ask, because I do not maintain speeds above 80 (well, not as a general rule) and wanted to know if the devices would be a help (worth the envestment) at lower speeds, or merely for looks. I"m OK with looks, but would rather have some positive effect for the money spent. You have my attention, so I thought I would ask. Jim Jim
Joel, I totally forgot to tell you about my findings at the CLP and will try and do that for you. I am also going to try and get some brackets made/find and do that as well.
So let me start with my daily commute. I don't do this trip anymore but that's another story. The important point is that this was a very twisty country road for about 20 miles. I loved it everyday, maybe that's why I went to work so that I could drive that road. I think 60 would be my max speed if nobody was looking. As a trained performance driving instructor, I would position the car and apex every turn and see how the car would perform. After a while I started to see opportunities for improvement. After tire and suspension improvements, (best street tires and coil-over suspension dialed in), I turned to aero improvements. I am an avid fan of Formula One where changes in direction are legendary. The streets of Monaco for example have turns as low as 40 mph and high speeds approaching 180. Here is where I and other team members looked to find downforce solutions to this little car that we drive. Finally, to answer your question. Grip levels in the range of 19 -30% at moderate speeds (40 -60 mph) are possible compared to a stock MINI when you optimize the tire/suspension package and then add downforce elements. Somewhat higher speeds yield higher benefits. Most street drivers would not attempt turns much higher than 80 - 90 mph, they are not used to it or trained for it. With track training, that little MINI can outpace many cars costing 3 and 4 times as much, if properly equipped. Lastly, the looks. Our customer cars can take on a variety of looks. From subtle changes all the way to a race car look. It's up to you.
Very nice... I was thinking of making something similar for my car... but one that's a standalone so I can swap back to the "normal" spoiler for non-track days.
I don't know if you noticed the tiny compression sensor between the two elements. It's there in the picture. After a highway trip at the legal speed limit + some extra so that I could honestly say I tested it properly, my sensor was crushed. I'm now going to version 2.0. Pictures to follow. Net/Net I'm getting some serious downforce now with this prototype. Just a little bit of re-engineering to handle the forces and then a re-test. Test speed on the track will be a lot higher! BTW, 2.0 will be adjustable.
Sounds great... I was thinking about the best way to measure the downforce. I was thinking about some way to measure ride height and then convert that to force based on spring rates. In the case of your spoiler, the bottom part doesn't do much, so you can use it as a base to measure your functional add-on, but that's tough with a complete spoiler. Anyway, looking forward to the results.
Unlike Graham's car my '03 "S" is bone stock. The addition of a splitter and spoiler extension made a world of difference in the way she handles. The added grip and stability is noticed especially in the rain. I run country roads and highways anywhere from 40 to 120 mph (don't tell on me).:crazy: Mark Group4
Most of my driving is on country roads as well. I thought they had some real turns until I went to the Dragon. Is there much loss in mpg from the drag? Also is the wing we saw pictured on Nathan's car still in the pipe line? Jim
First question. If you are having fun with your car, you will never notice a difference in mileage. If you were to do a very long term mileage test, under controled conditions, you might find a slight mileage loss. Second question. Yes the wing is still in the pipeline. I am doing a few minor design changes, both for looks and ease to manufacture.
Thanks again for your honest answers. If you all will you all will be doing instals at the next Dragon,then I will most likely be on the list. Jim