1st Gen R53 Cooper S H-Sport vs TSW Ride Comfort

Discussion in '1st Generation: 2002–06 R50, R53 & 2004–08 R52' started by wzabrouski, Mar 23, 2010.

  1. wzabrouski

    wzabrouski Active Member

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    Has anyone out there had both h-sport springs and switched to the tsw springs for the r53? The ride on the h-sports with koni yellows is getting a little rough and I was curious if the tsw springs might give me a tad more comfort without giving up too much handling.

    Walter

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  2. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    Well considering the H-sport springs are progressive and the TSW are linear I would guess the ride would be a bit stiffer with the TSW springs.

    I know some folks who have the H&R springs and considered them an improvement over OEM for ride.
     
  3. jeff@txwerks

    [email protected] New Member

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    We have tried both H-Sport and H&R on the MINI and both resulted in a rougher ride. Contrary to popular belief, the MINI rides MUCH better with linear springs that are correctly matched to the shocks, which is why TSW only makes premium linear springs. There is a lot of bad information floating out there on MINI suspension components, so be careful.

    Regards,
    [email protected]
     
  4. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    But if the Koni yellows are kept, wouldn't the progressive springs give a bit better ride?
     
  5. jimz68

    jimz68 New Member

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    I found the ride better with the TSW springs. (on Koni Yellows)
    Much crisper handling,too. No more mushy feeling on turn-in.

    Jim
     
  6. bee1000

    bee1000 New Member

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    The Konis are probably part of the issue, too. A little birdie (okay, it was Way) told me that Konis on even the softest setting are firmer than JCW dampers. I don't know how much each is contributing to a harsh ride, but they are working together.
     
  7. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    No doubt the TSW springs are top notch. Have had a set of the V1 for 3 years now and love them.

    But the OP was talking about a softer ride.......
     
  8. jeff@txwerks

    [email protected] New Member

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    It is not so much the type of shock, it is the design of the suspension on the MINI. Progressive springs simply do not work well on the MINI suspension. We have tried every combination of aftermarket springs and shocks and linear springs are way better.

    [email protected]
     
  9. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    Progressive springs that are too low and too soft is gonna be uncomfortable.

    The ride comfort issue with MINIs is not directly a spring rate issue.

    - Andrew
     
  10. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    :Thumbsup:
     
  11. jeff@txwerks

    [email protected] New Member

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    I agree with your first statement, however not the second. If we limit the discussion to a stock MINI with OEM struts and OEM springs, the ride comfort issue is DIRECTLY related to the spring rate.

    We dyno'd the OEM springs and measured the OEM spring rate and found that the OEM springs were way too soft. That is done on purpose to make the MINI understeer. With a weak spring the shock is dominent in the suspension, which is why you feel every expansion joint, pot hole and abrupt change in the road. With a dominant spring, the same thing will happen along with some other nasty stuff.

    The OEM spring rate is only 160lb. We have coil-over systems that use up to 400lb linear springs with a shock that is matched once you dial in the dampening and rebound rates. These systems ride remarkably well on the road.

    If you match the spring to the OEM shock, the ride smoothes out dramatically and the quick turns are much more crisp. The spring/shock combination is now a tuned system. We have tested this over and over again - it is simply physics.

    [email protected]
     
  12. Jason Montague

    Jason Montague New Member
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    OEM spring rate 160lbs?

    :D OEM=160lbs ? Is that for standard springs or Sport Suspension(which come in light and heavy depending on options/weight of car) or JCW springs? There are 4 or 5 different OEM spring rates depending upon car weight and options. Did y'all test them all? The 160lbs springs,which catagory above do they fit into?The other springs,what weight are they?I'd just really like to know and since you've tested them all ,this is my chance to find out. Thankyou:Thumbsup: Jason
     
  13. Jason Montague

    Jason Montague New Member
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    Springs

    :yesnod: BUMP . Just really wanted to know the answer to above post.:Thumbsup: Jason
     
  14. wmwny

    wmwny Well-Known Member

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    Right after I bought my '06 MCS, I had H-Sports installed by Waylen. They gave me the lowered stance I wanted, but, as the years rolled by, I noticed the ride getting more and more harsh...to the point where, last summer, one of my frequent riders told me he would never ride in my car again! So, when I went back to Waylen for some other mods, I commented and he suggested that I try the TSWs. What a difference they have made! The car is a lot more comfortable, while still being stable on the track and in twisties. I'm happy I changed...anyone looking to buy some H-Sports [CHEAP]?
     
  15. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    In your opinion, what caused the ride to deterioate with age? The only thing you changed was the switch to TSW springs? I find that odd?
     
  16. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    Perhaps I should have said "The ride comfort issue with MINIs is not ONLY a spring rate issue." :)

    I definitely do agree that the valving could better match the stock springs (or vice versa). From my buttdyno I feel like there is too much rebound for the spring, and it sounds like you would agree. It's hard to get a feel for compression damping since the car is on the bumpstops (and I'm using 25 lb s-lites still so unsprung weight is too high), but I think it could be firmer.

    So yes firmer springs would match the OEM struts better and improve ride quality and handling.

    But the lack of suspension travel is a large contributor to the the crummy stock ride quality, IMO. Being essentially on the bumpstops all the time means that the 160 lbs/in spring rate quickly spikes very high during any bump or bodly roll, and this is more of a problem up front. This means great turn-in, but it quickly leads to safe and controllable understeer (that's not fast). Perfect for a mass-produced sporty car from the manufacturers point of view. Unfortunately it also means initial jolts are way too harsh. Coupled with too much rebound, the extension is too harsh too since the damper is overpowering the spring. So it all sucks. Firmer springs with a minimal drop would have the added benefit of keeping you off the bumpstops a little more, also improving ride quality.

    I'm always amazed by people who complain about the body roll in the Mini...the car is pretty damn flat stock (relatively), thanks to cornering on rubber bumpstops 100% of the time. Feels good on turn in, feels like poop the rest of the time. This car needs much more compliance out of the front end IMO, and I do feel that a minimal drop spring that increases spring rate can help quite a bit by keeping the car off the bumpstops a little more. That's why I think your springs are easily the best out there. :Thumbsup:

    Totally agree that a 400 lbs/in coilover with decent travel and good valving is great. Compliance can come in many forms....and stiff and harsh is not always fast.

    - Andrew

     
  17. wmwny

    wmwny Well-Known Member

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    LOL...well, we had to go to PA. The road that killed my friend's already bad back was the Interstate between Akron and Youngstown...potholes and uneven expansion joints. My H-Sports admittedly had around 35k on them and had been on all sorts of roads. Switching to the TSW springs has really smoothed out the ride, and now I am trying to convince him to ride back to PA with me next summer. How he survives will determine the worthiness of the TSWs...LOL
     
  18. Putttn

    Putttn New Member

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    What's TSW W/FSD combo like? I have the FSD on my Cooper but running stock on my S. I'd like to upgrade the S but the FSD's raised the height more thanI like. Will the TSW's w/FSD's result in raise ht and is it a good combo?
     
  19. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    I've had the TSW springs for over 35000 and still love them! Great compromise in ride, handling and stance. Short of topshelf coilovers, their the best choice in springs! 2cents

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  20. Rixter

    Rixter Well-Known Member

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