So after witnessing a bad accident at the track this fall that resulted in the driver suffering a traumatic brain injury, I'm doing a little Christmas shopping for head and neck restraints. I have an R53 with stock seats and Schroth Quick Fit 4 point harnesses with the seatbelt-style buckle that I bought in 2008. I've looked at the HANS Sport model, the DefNder, the R3, and the Hybrid Rage. All have pluses and minuses, and several people have given me great commentary on all of them. Right now I'm leaning towards a HANS or DefNder due to the superior range of motion and crash test numbers (all are rated for SFI 38.1, but these exceed the standard). Does anybody have any experience with using these things with a 4 point harness? It came to my attention that my harnesses might not be compatible with a HANS-style device.
It is not. Schroth did make a four point specifically intended for use with a HANS device: Schroth Racing Harnesses
Not really any help on the harness, but I would recommend the HANS. I have a HANS and a friend of mine has the Defnder, he is constantly messing with it (not in a good way). It is also a serious PIA to get the clips attached to the helmet. It almost requires someone to help you. He also has issues with it slipping down when strapped in. I have never used a HANS (or that type device) without fixed back seats. I would think that it would be hard to get enough tension on the shoulder straps to make it work effectively with stock seats.
You really don't want to use a HANS device with the 4 point. It is not designed to work with it. The Schroth is actually designed to function the same as a single shoulder belt in the case of a front end hit. The straps are designed to stretch and allow the upper body to rotate slightly just like a shoulder belt would. This will not work properly with a HANS device. If you really want to use that kind of product you are going to need to get a seat designed for a harness and get either a roll bar or harness bar. What kind of equipment was the unfortunate driver using? Were the airbags still functional?
Hey Scott, I know this has been discussed before, and by no means am I endorsing any one product. But per Schroth on their Schroth Quick Fit Pro - Mini belts: 4 Point Removable Harness System Ability to use with HANS Device Ability to add Anti-Sub Strap Attaches to Factory Seat Belt Receptacles Simple Install ASM Anti SubMarining Technology Obviously a proper seat and cage is better, but Schroth seems to think that it works. Are you thinking it's just Kool Aid?
Those are the spec's for the Quick-fit Pro belts. I assumed the OP had the original quick-fit ones. Schroth Racing Harnesses
Hmm... okay. It'd be easier if this stuff wasn't so damn expensive. Oh well. @btwdriver: Thanks for the tip, even though it's another $150, I was leaning towards the HANS. I have no problem getting enough tension on the Schroth harness. I'm about 5'11" 185lbs, and that thing snugs up really good. It's like wearing a hiking backpack. I actually have a harder time getting enough tension on 5 or 6 pt harnesses when I'm riding in an instructor's car. I feel like some race seats don't cut the waist strap holes low enough, and then it's a PITA trying to snug them tight when the fixed back seat is too wide for the car. I think the new harnesses coming out with 2" waist belts are a good idea. But I'm a long ways away from affording a cage, seats, and 5/6 pt harnesses. @goaljnky: Yeah, I have the non-pro harness. Sounds like I'm gonna need to upgrade my harness as well. @ScottinBend: I think the HANS will still help with a 4 point harness. The asm piece will still mimic a 3 pt harness by letting your shoulders rotate, but I think the issue is reducing the motion of the neck. The R3 is designed to be used with 3 point harnesses, and it anchors the helmet like the HANS does. I asked the event organizer about the car's safety equipment. The car was an E36 M3 with a half cage, fixed seats, and harnesses. No idea on airbags. Car was totaled, impact was on driver's side front corner, approx 110-120 mph. No HANS, she said, "but as the greatest hit was on the side a HANS probably would not have helped as much as side nets between the passengers." I'm not sure how much I believe that, though.
I personally use a HANS, I actually had trouble making it fit me right. But I can say the HANS customer support is fantastic. It does help they are a mile from my shop, but they really care about their product and want to help in anyway they can. I'd say call them and ask your questions, they are the ones that invented these style head restrants.
As long as the harness is designed to use the HANS then all should be good. I would also suggest that the driver should have been using a HANS simply because he was using a fixed seat and a standard harness. But at that speed I am not sure a regular car, w/o a full cage, would have been safe at all.
I use a HANS device with the Schroth belts and stock sport seats. No problem getting snugged in, no problem with the belts slipping off. I worried a bit about the ASM too, but not all hits will cause that to let go. Even a medium bang can cause spinal damage, so I use mine. It does limit my ability to back the car up in the paddock, so I back into my spot after unhooking the helmet straps at the end of a session. As an instructor, my worries are about being in a student's car. If the student is wearing a HANS and no provision for me, we have a discussion about speed limits...
I've got the Quick Fit Pro which are made to be used with the HANS device. Not sure what the difference is, but I think the ASM stretch is shorter. Anybody else know?
It's in the belt attachments. On the regular Quick Fit they are attached at the lap belt a little wider then on the Pro model which used the center buckle. So angle of the shoulder belts is a little different.
Thanks for the advice guys. I ended up getting a HANS for Christmas, so now I'm saving up for a new set of belts. And I should give a shout out to the guys at Discovery Parts in Atlanta - great customer service and feedback over the phone.