2nd Gen R58 Hard knock

Discussion in '2nd Generation: 2007+ R55 through R61' started by MCS02, Jul 27, 2018.

  1. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    8,261
    4,477
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +4,650 / 0 / -0
    Well I thought I would move this to its own thread. Below is what I had posted in "What did you do to your Mini" I copied it hear for those that may not have seen it.

    "Ok this has been one of those days!
    I went home between flights to put the R53 in the garage and get the helmet out. This requires moving two other cars. Once I started the Helmet it had a knocking sound coming from the front (passenger)side of the engine. The car has sat for a month so at first I was not worried but I could not get it to go away. I talked to Chad at DT and he said let it idle and maybe it would quiet down after the engine got warm. Perhaps sitting caused one of the oil passages to get blocked. This was the first step he said to try. He gave me some other things it may be if it did not go away after idling. I really appreciate Chads help. I know he is busy, it speaks volumes about him that he helped.
    I put the Helmet back up and took the poor R53 back to work. I cant believe it is still hanging on.

    I thought I would put this out and see if anyone here can help. The oil is fresh. I changed it ether before or right after the Dragon. Its changed every 3k. the sound is loudest at the passenger side on the front corner of the engine (by the front grill). I used a screwdriver to find the loud point. I plan on pulling off the valve cover to see what I can find.

    Any ideas?"

    "Today I pulled the valve cover off the helmet. I found that all the intake valves snap up when the lob moves off them. the exhaust is smooth. N14 engine........wonder what could be causing sticky intake valves???

    Seafoam time"
     
  2. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    8,261
    4,477
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +4,650 / 0 / -0
    After I put it back together and started it I know the noise was not the valves. I ran some Seafood through anyway because the valves should come up smooth not pop up. If I use a screwdriver as a stethoscope it is loudest when I put it on the belt tensioner near the block. You can even feel it. its a very pronounced knock.
    So I took the belt off the AC and the generator. the sound was still there but much quieter. I could still hear it in the same spot with the screwdriver but agin much quieter. So that ruled out the generator. I put the car back together and it was louder. I took it for a drive but it did not go away. with the windows up and ac on you cant hear it. with the windows down you can.

    Its a loud hard knock. I almost think its a rod but I don't see how.

    Any ideas would really help.
     
  3. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2010
    2,754
    1,266
    113
    Engineer
    Pacific NW
    Ratings:
    +1,309 / 0 / -0
  4. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    8,261
    4,477
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +4,650 / 0 / -0
    Yes........fish oil is good for the N14 engine. Have you never heard that?
     
  5. minirab

    minirab Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2009
    3,166
    716
    113
    Hagerstown, Md.
    Ratings:
    +727 / 0 / -0
    My car is a clone of yours in looks and most of the go fast goodies. I have been paranoid of the timing chain problems since it was new, so I check the oil EVERY
    time I drive it which is only once a week since I bought that Indian two years ago. Besides one coil going bad its been trouble free. It now has 44k on it. Build date
    is 12/11. Best of luck getting your problems resolved.
     
  6. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    8,261
    4,477
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +4,650 / 0 / -0
    @minirab just took a long ride on mine today. Thanks. I don’t have a clue yet. I don’t think it’s the timing chain. It’s constant and changes with the RPMs.
     
  7. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    8,261
    4,477
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +4,650 / 0 / -0
    Ok here is what the Helmet sounds like, guess I will be installing a new timing chain. As you can hear its a hard knock. I thought a timing chain rattle would sound like....well a chain rattling. That is why I didn't think the was my problem.

     
  8. wmwny

    wmwny Well-Known Member

    May 29, 2009
    3,211
    1,501
    113
    Retired
    Piqua, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +1,530 / 0 / -0
    WOW...Mark musta run that poor ole Helmet to death! :Devilish:
     
  9. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    8,261
    4,477
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +4,650 / 0 / -0
    HA, or I am not running it hard enough. Just the joy of the N14 engine
     
  10. Sully

    Sully Administrator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member

    Jul 21, 2015
    1,539
    515
    113
    Software
    30350
    Ratings:
    +559 / 4 / -0
    Yea - that’s a really crazy sound for a loose timing chain. I’m pretty surprised frankly. Whomever did that video helped a lot as it’s pretty distinct.
     
  11. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    8,261
    4,477
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +4,650 / 0 / -0
    I got a timing chain kit from Detroit Tuned. Once I got it apart the old tensioner was a quarter inch, at least, shorter then the new one. As most know I managed to brake one of the guide bolts, I did not feel my torque wrench click. Those bolts torque to 22lb, I knew I was going to tight. I should have stopped before that happened, it had been a long day.
    The Gen2 cars are very different animals. It wasn't supper hard job but was not easy. The way the chain is set up it is very important to use the recommend procedures to tighten the pulleys, if not they can slip and cause damage.
    Thanks Chad and everyone here that posted helping me with my broke bolt.
     
  12. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Sep 29, 2009
    12,547
    7,415
    113
    Owner of a small custom metal fabrication company,
    Columbus, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +7,423 / 0 / -0
    WOW.... That's going to put a lot of slack in the chain path.

    I replaced my chain tensioner earlier this year and noticed the plunger spring was weaker than the new one (same latest part number). Part wasn't all that expensive and no trouble replacing. Screw the old one out and screw the new one in and set the proper torque. An intake elbow was the only piece that had to be removed.

    I didn't replace the tensioner because it was making any kind of "death rattle", just figured that when the chain gets slack it will beat the plastic chain guides causing them to break off and do engine damage... Wanted to catch it before that happened...

    I like driving the MINI and will most likely keep it and will probably plan on replacing the chain tensioner at some regular period...

    Good luck with getting the Dark Helmut back on the road...
     
  13. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    8,261
    4,477
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +4,650 / 0 / -0
    I may have been able to get away with just a tensioner but decided to do it all. I drove the Helmet a lot today it’s running great!
     
  14. Sully

    Sully Administrator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member

    Jul 21, 2015
    1,539
    515
    113
    Software
    30350
    Ratings:
    +559 / 4 / -0
    Good deal! Glad it’s back together..

    Curious- what would cause the tensioner to be so short? I could see it not having the pressure (spring gets weak and/or diaphragm starts leaking assuming oil is running through it).. but shorter seems odd. Granted I’ve not done a MINI tensioner yet.. but would assume it’s similar to the other cars I’ve done which are oil activated.
     
  15. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    8,261
    4,477
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +4,650 / 0 / -0
    I don't know if maybe the replacement is a different design or what. But it is longer than the old one.
     

Share This Page