Most liked posts in thread: Healthcare: Yay or nay.

One more thing before I try and climb down off my soapbox....


What I do not understand is how any American can accept/support this Bill when the very Authors and champions of it have exempted themselves from it's rule. This very act is Dictorial, Marxist, Communist and Socialistic by it's very nature....

We Americans have enjoyed for many years now the most prosperity and Liberty of any people's in history by following the principles laid down by our forefathers. Now we seem too be embracing the beliefs of countless failed countries littered throughout history....ut:

 

Wow all 4 at once? Very impressive :lol:

 

I'm inclusive......:lol:

 

Yea I know :blush2: But our BMW dealer has had such bad customer reviews that they, Mini, is holding out on us :frown2:

 

Ok, so I've read a dozen different articles on the new program today. I'm still confused. Best I can tell for me...

Remember, I am self employed and currently do not have any health insurance.

As I read this in 2014, yes, 2014, let that sink in for a sec....

In 2014 I can get coverage from an insurance "exchange", somewhat like a co-op. This "exchange" will offer 4 different plans. If at the time I make less than $44K annually I can get "help" to pay for the least expensive plan offered so a plan cost no more than 10% of my income. If I want a better plan then there is no Fed subsidy. This basic plan will eschew with any pre-exisitng conditions I may have. I can opt out if belong to a certain group as defined by congress. I don't, so there is no opt out. Now if I don't get insurance then I get to pay a fine starting at $95 and going as high as $625. But the frequency of the fine is not mentioned.

This whole thing is going to be a massive clusterfark.

I'm not an unintelligent person and I'm having trouble understanding this stuff. Good luck to the great unwashed masses out there. I can see it now, there is going to a new industry to advise people people on this, for a fee of course.

 

That view is waaaay too free-market. You'll get perfectly good advice from the bureaucracy we're going to be funding. Just like the IRS helps you with your taxes. Now the IRS will help you determine whether you have sufficient insurance. :cryin:

Yeah, it's a dandy.

Today, I can insure my family of four (including the portion that my employer pays) for about $4000/year. The fact that they're setting the expectation that they'll subsidize it so folks only have to spend 10% per year on "insurance" is a harbinger of where they think premiums are going to go... WAAAAAY up.

And even though these wonderful magical new benefits mostly don't start until 2014, we start paying for it IMMEDIATELY through new taxes and fees on various things. Which of course drives up costs for those things. Immediately. And the gubmint gets to claim 10 years worth of revenues to fund 7 years worth of programs - to claim that it "saves" money. I wish I only had to pay for 9 months of bills every year with 12 months of income, and act like the other three months bills don't exist. That's quite a trick.

By the way, what's a "subsidy"? I guess that means it gets paid for out of Obama's stash. That way nobody really has to pay for it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ojd13kZlCA]YouTube - Obama Stash[/ame]

 

I'm a surgeon. I'll tell you what it means from this side of the fence...

First of all, cost reduction while expanding coverage by 30 million is impossible. Especially when Tort reform has received nothing more than lip service. Defensive medicine is a HUGE problem. We order boatloads of unnecessary, expensive tests because of the one in a million chance we might miss a one in a million disease, get sued, and potentially be out of practice.

Second of all, there is no incentive to get insurance--just pay the fine. It'll be cheaper. Then, since you are GUARANTEED insurance, buy if/when you (god forbid) get sick. Another reason why there will be a huge deficit. The sickest will pay for their insurance (but not what it will cost to deliver care to them), while the healthy low risk population, who are needed to foot the other half of the bill, simply won't. The penalty isn't stiff enough. And taxing everyone else to make up the difference (i.e. the middle and upper class, who actually work)? Still won't be enough.

Medicare has been threatening a 21% cut to physician services yearly for as long as I can remember. At the last minute, it gets rescinded--it's untenable. There already is a physician shortage, there are already physicians who won't take medicare (let alone medicaid--I lose money on medicaid patients, but still see them as it's made up elsewhere, and I have to be able to sleep at night).

And the new procedures we are doing--robotic surgery--is a money loser. The hospital loses about three thousand A CASE whenever we saddle up the robot. Are people going to be willing to accept the fact that for some procedures, we're going to have to take a step back, because the "cutting edge" simply isn't feasible economically?

So what's the fallout? Everyone who is financially well off enough will get out. Physicians are retiring earlier and earlier for several reasons--less autonomy, more risk, less pay. It's a tough trifecta. Many people thinking about getting into it will think twice--you're going to have a smaller pool of people applying, a subsequent relaxing of standards, and physicians not quite as good as the ones you have today. A fair number of physicians could opt out of medicare, meaning the majority patients who'll get decent care--i.e. timely, by a well-qualified physician--will have good insurance. And THAT insurance will be expensive.

There are alternatives. But the current president wants it done NOW, with as little discussion as possible. Obama's initial push for ramming the healthcare proposal through without any debate or rumination was due to his belief that the Clinton's screwed up by allowing for debate--that killed the initiative back in Clinton's first term. He almost got a bill through that was even worse than this one....

I do have a problem with CEO's of health insurance companies making millions of dollars a year--some much more than that--when a hardworking primary care doctor makes a fraction of that. It's one of the few things this bill addresses that I agree with.


I feel bad for our children. They'll foot most of this bill, and it's going to be crippling, if it goes through as is. Gotta quit writing, my blood pressure is going up, and I at this point I can't even get my thoughts out about this cogently anymore....

 

You forgot to mention that your income taxes will be raised to pay for it too because the inconvienent truth is THERE IS NO MONEY TO PAY FOR IT.

Great day for America, we the people got a bill shoved down our throats when every pole clearly showed that we did not want it; by a group of people who will be exempt from it... That's right the Politicians and the President who decided that we needed this Healthcare reform will not participate.. They in their great wisdom and caring way will at our (We The People) expense continue to receive the very same gold plated Healthcare that they have been enjoying for the rest of their lives along with a full retirement even after we've voted the bums out of office... Good enough for us but not good enough for them.

This is not "Government for the people, by the people" it's "Government for the Government on the backs of the People."

This ain't over...:mad5:

 

How does this prevent those of us that pay good money for health care, to say screw it and ditch our health care so we can get a free ride?
Not saying I'm going to do that, but I'm sure there are those that will.

 

That's part of the problem. Part of insurance is employer mandated; however, for those individuals who aren't covered, it'll be substantially cheaper to pay the fine, and get insurance when you get sick (you can't be denied). The only risk is if you need to go to the ER without insurance, or have an acute illness that requires attention before you can get insurance, you'll have one hefty bill to pay. Hospitals can charge what they want in this situation--the resulting bill will be higher than it would be to someone who is uninsured, because the insurance companies will have negotiated a lower rate for that service.

I still haven't seen any possible way that the country can pay for this. Besides that, if there's universal coverage, but not enough MD's to see everyone, what have you gained? The ER's are going to get abused--I am so glad I didn't go into emergency medicine....

 

cct1, two great write up's As I work in health care also, be it a stationary engineer, I said virtually the same thing many pages ago. Like you said, "There already is a physician shortage, there are already physicians who won't take medicare (let alone medicaid--I lose money on medicaid patients,".

Our hospital takes all the indigent of Fresno county and takes a beating financially. I don't see how we are going to make it?

Like you also said, "The ER's are going to get abused--I am so glad I didn't go into emergency medicine.... ".

We have the third largest ER in California and it is already packed, people laying in the hallways, it will get even worse :frown5:

 

Jim.....Now I see why you wanted me to move to Fresno....and I thought it was for Minis..LOL

 

:lol: No it's for the Mini's :cornut: One good thing about my hospital system is, we are really the only game in town. There would be no way the city or the county could let us close. We have a Kaiser, only treats their members, a Veterans, only treats veterans and a smaller private hospital here. We have jobs waiting for both you and Lorie here, don't you worry

 

Merry Christmas.

ObamaCare's Effects Are Already Showing - WSJ.com

 

Joy :nonod:

 

Above everything else that has gone down in the past week, there is one law that can not be repealed, modified, or other wise changed. It's the "Law of Unintended Consequences". Lets see what happens now.

 

What happens when you have an adminstration that consist of little more than 10% of the folks making policy having ANY private sector experience. With roughly 90% of Obama's adminstration (including him) not having worked and supported themselves in the real world, where do you think all their answers to every problem will be??? Government...that's all they know.

Amerika, aint it beautiful!:mad2:

 

Why yes it is...

We can travel freely about the nation.

We can protest peacefully without fear of arrest.

We can write and publish dissent without fear of arrest.

We are still the place people want to emigrate to.

We may have a lot of flaws but its still a great place to live.

 

Yeah, MINIs and beer are way cheaper down here

Mark

 

The whole thing drives me nuts. Not just healthcare.

Particularly a complete lack of understanding of how small businesses and the current tax code work. Statements about almost no small business owners not making (fill in the blank - $250K? $500K? $1M?) a year, so taxing above that level won't hurt small business.

I'm personally very familiar with a small business with about 25 employees. Last year the company had net income (aka evil profit) of a bit over $1M. The business is an S Corporation owned by two partners. The partners each made probably between $100K and $200K in salary and evil bonuses. Almost all the net income of the business was left in the business as retained earnings to fund a round of hiring and expansion they're doing right now - funding NEW JOBS. But, because it's an S corp, all this net income shows up as PERSONAL INCOME on the owners personal tax returns. Same would be true of a sole proprietorship or partnership. So they have to pay taxes on that, even though that money never sees it's way into their personal bank accounts. So they have to distribute enough of the net income out of the business (i.e. write themselves a check) so they can write the IRS a check. If the size of that tax payment goes up, the amount of funds available to hire new employees and grow the business is directly reduced by that amount.

This is a scenario that is duplicated tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of times across the country every year, in every successful small business that's turning a profit and growing. It's where most of our potential job growth and recovery will come from. Yet the current administration claims that increasing taxes on personal income over $250K will not impact small business and will not impact job growth. Either they're idiots who are completely clueless about the tax code and how small businesses work, or they're liars and know full well that they're killing the economy. Pick one.