The Canadian health care system has way less people involved between the patient and doctor than the US system. The myriad of health care insurance companies, mixed with the cost of hospitals and clinics billing departments, make the US system very inefficient. A very large% of health care costs in the US are admin based, rather than patient based. Canada has health care issues.Administrating health care is not one of them. Mark
I'm with lotsie, at least partially - way too many intermediaries in the current US system, just as there would be in the proposed US system. Direct patient-doctor interactions (and payments) drives quality, competition and innovation.
Paul, how do most people deal with direct patient-doctor $ relations if there is no insurance? Most people can not afford to pay the high cost of health care directly from their pocket. So what is so bad of giving people the ability to pay into one health insurance fund, that covers everyone? If you need care, you get it. If your lucky enough to not need care, you have peace of mind it is there if you do. If your kid is sick, and needs care, gets the care, and you leave the hospital knowing you don't have to decide to not make the next house payment, Priceless. Mark
Totally agree with both of you, there is already too many people involved and getting the Lawyers and the court system out of the examining room would be a good place to start and then deal with the insurance companies through regulations not a government take over. The reviews on the Canadian system are mixed at best, depending on who you talk to. There is just no way that you will convince me that with the spending record Washington has amassed, that government can provide me with better or the same level of healthcare for the same or less money that I have now.:nonod:
Sounds great but how long before, like Social Security, which was a fund that held our money so that we would have a security blanket when we got old, be exposed to the BIG SPENDERS in Washington and spent on everything but our healthcare?
I have nothing against insurance. My point is that the insurance system breaks down when it removes the direct relationship between the doctor and the patient. Insurance should protect the insured against catastrophic costs - just like every other form of insurance. If your annual costs are less than your deductible - you pay out of pocket. If your annual costs exceed your deductible - your expense gets reimbursed (to you) by the insurer. But injecting the insurance company (or government) between the provider and the consumer eliminates the consumer's "savings motive" and the provider's "value motive"... and I can trace most cost, quality, and other issues with both the US and other healthcare systems back to this issue. No one ever reduced the total cost of anything by providing unlimited supply to the consumer with "invisible" cost - or pooled cost. The incentives are wrong - and drive over-use and over-charging. My insurance coverage just changed. Now my deductible on my HSA plan is much higher than it used to be. So it truly IS insurance against catastrophic costs - not a magical "healthcare plan" that pays and pays and pays. You know what? I've already found OTC generic equivalents for some of the drugs that previously I was paying much more for. Previously I didn't care what they cost - because I was certain to meet my max out of pocket every year... so the marginal cost of the more expensive drugs was zero as far as I was concerned. Now, under my new plan, it matters. And I'm driving the total cost of healthcare for myself DOWN. I'm also pressing our physicians to only perform necessary tests and procedures. Drives costs DOWN. People always get drunker at an open bar than a cash bar. Go figure.
It would be foolish to think that there no is probability of corruption with a government run system, from all angles. Those that admin. the system can skew the system to work better for those that elect/appoint them. Those that work within the system will likely try and get the most out of the system for their services. And there are those that will always try and get more than their fair share of the services that the system provides. These things go on now, with the multitude of insurance companies, service providers, and end users with the current system. I'm a lowly stagehand, not a health care professional, so I just struggle with the issue. But somehow there has to be a way so hospitals don't have to spend so much to advertise what they do, but instead direct that money towards care. There must be a mindset within the medical profession (doctors) to hold more value in the oath they took, than how much money they can make. You can flame away at me, politely as we do on this site, but really, do hospitals need to be dressed up like 5 star hotels, trying to attract customers, rather than just being clean safe places to deal with health matters. I'm no statistician, but I'm pretty sure most doctors choose the profession, and are not forced into it, so they can just lay off how much it costs in schooling. You don't want big college costs, become a plumber. Mark
Paul, you are right about abuse, and misuse of any kind of insurance, be it health, auto, or whatever. Your also right about how we should look at keeping our personal costs down. Mark
I like the ridiculous charges some hospitals make. My Dad once had a surgery and they gave him a hot Pabst Blueribbon beer to get his bladder going, they charged the insurance co. $18.00 for that one beer in a can.... Or one hospital was caught charging $300.00 for a "mucous recovery system", turned out to be a box of Kleenx.....ut: We do need healthcare reform, just not through a government option.
Quickly skimmed the last couple pages, so not sure this has been said? I have worked for a hospital system for the last 11+ years, we have 3 hospitals and numerous clinics, we are a "not for profit-private" system, but the county of Fresno pays us to do their part. What most people don't understand is that, there is already free health care available out there. All the indigent peoples in our county come to our hospitals and clinics and get "free" service, plus anyone who comes into our emergency rooms. Our system then bills Medicare for this, but it NEVER pays for it's self, we LOSE money! That is why hospitals have to charge so much for everything, otherwise they would all close down, then what? We are already seeing more patients account of all the job loss, people losing their insurance are now going to the free clinics. If this health care reform goes thru........be ready for HUGE lines and HUGE wait times for everything! Yes something has to be done but seeing first hand how hard it is to keep a health care system in a financial balance, from a company that has been doing it for 30+ years, I couldn't imagine a government run system being able to do it.
Sorry, jiminni, but you're vastly overqualified to post in this thread. We don't allow people here who actually have any factual knowledge of the healthcare system. Just kidding - excellent insight - thanks for sharing it.
Wow what timing, this statement was just put out on our company website: Hospital system’s “community benefits:†$149 million Community Medical Centers provided nearly $149 million in uncompensated services to the medically underserved in fiscal year 2008-2009, equivalent to nearly 15% of its total expenses, according to the nonprofit hospital system’s annual community benefits report filed with the State of California. Community has historically spent more on uncompensated community benefits than all other Fresno-area hospitals combined. And, some years, nearly double their combined total. This is what most hospital systems are going thru right now. I believe there were even some hospitals that have closed down in SO. CAL. within the last year on account of this
Yea why fix the health care? Who doesnt like seeing a car wash to raise money for a childs cancer treatment. I think Wall street care is just fine keep those large profits on the dying.Hey maybe we can get Goldman sucks or B of A to get into the health care.
Actually I've always wondered why Wal-Mart doesn't start offering health-care. I know, WalMart is evil, but if they did the same tactics they do to their suppliers with hospitals and drug companies, everyone would be cheering for them. They could provide it free for all their employees as an image builder as well.
I can't speak for the accuracy of the following information, but I took it directly from a news article: I had no idea that they were talking about such a high tax rate. 40%? On $8,500 we are talking about $3,400/year. $283.33 a month. Minimum. Wow!