Brakes Wheels 1st Gen Tires Heat shielding brake shims

The downside of this approach

is that one creates the echo chamber where the majority view carries the day, independant of any facts or the like. This is the downside to discussions on the internet. I've been reemed tons of times for actually putting in some data or facts into internet discussions where I'm accused of being insensitive to the opinions of others. If enough people in an on-line discussion want to say that 2+2=5, then you can bet this new "fact" will permeate and diffuse into other boards and the like. So there are two sides to that coin for sure.

Anyway, I did learn something today in looking some stuff up... That is that alloys of metal typically have lower thermal conductivity than one would "predict" based on an algebreic average of the thermal conductivities of the consituant metals. Makes sense on an atomic scale, but I'd never really thought about it.

For those that want to know why this makes sense: read on.... So thermal conductivity is the collisions of vibrating atoms. But this isn't the pool-ball model of atoms, it's more the ball-spring model where the ball is the atom, and the spring is the interatomic bonds. In pure materials, you can have a well ordered latice with each and every atom well linked to neighbors. In alloys, because of the different sizes of atoms and the like, the lattices are not well formed and the linkage between the atoms is not as good. So the motion of one atom doesn't propogate as well into its neighbors, and you have poorer thermal conductivity.

BTW, this is why diamond is one of the best thermal conductors known.....

Back to the standard internet debate....

Matt

 

Good point Matt. I should not have said "very high" thermal conductivity but those reading the complete information can get the content and not my grammar posting errors I do all the time?lol You are the technical writer not me.
Another good point with your information is that we do not not know what exact material the manufacture using. The ad states. "Our titanium alloy brake shields"so this makes it as your information gives a better choice for thermal conductivity?

Nathan you always have good points with regards to my postings. lol I am still on a learning curve with what/how much to post technically.
I have used Titanium over the years for many products/projects and know of it value and versatility. Accordingly for heat thermal conductivity and strength. Those are 2 main reason why I machined for use Ti retainers. http://www.fes-auto.com/index.php

I understand the need for "bench racing" on forums but it generally has more than a few regular players? Empirical data is not always necessary if you have at least a basic understanding material used and of how things work. I once started training to become a BMW Tech, the word "theory" is used during the lectures much more than empirical data. When designing a camshaft specification a combination of known empirical data along with theory applied. Not conjecture or "bench racing".



Seems simple enough?

D1204 Titanium Brake Heat Shielding Shim for MINI Cooper S [TS-T-D1204] : TiSpeed Titanium Brake Backing Plate Heat Shields, Improve Brake Performance, Reduce Brake Fade and Extend Brake Fluid Life
"Questions? email us or call 630.445.1044"

And report what they have to say about their product.

 

Hey Dr O, thanks for the metallurgical reminder on alloy thermal conduction, that was a good summary.

 

Hey Lynn....
Maybe 3 main reasons for using Ti spring retainers? 3rd being weight, and not adding to the centrifugal forces of the valve train?

 

I was trying to keep my responses to this thread related...:lol:

I like that you researched it and came back with this information....:cornut:

 

Thanks Nate! I assumed that most here knew that titanium would shield heat effieciently even those that don't read wiki daily... Merely was discussing the why, ifs and whens of using it in this application.

PS: I much prefer Carol Smith's primer on metallurgy and overall materials technology and how it is applied to a race car in his "Engineer to Win" to those generic examples from Wikipedia. The book is a bit dated but it's principles are as true today as they were when written.

PSS: Of course this is just my 2 cents as I haven't dropped out of the BMW Technician training program.

 

Not really.... We use it sometimes in our shop. I find it a truly fascinating material.

For a real interesting read, investigate the story behind the development of the SR-71 reconnaissance plane built for the CIA. The plane could not operate successfully without a titanium skin, and it needed a lot of it. The CIA set up a bogus company, for the sole purpose of acquiring titanium from the soviet union (the largest source in the world), to build a plane that was going to spy on them.

A couple of years ago we were asked to construct an archive quality display case to protect an actual flight suit used with the SR-71. The Smithsonian Institute provided the suit on loan for the "Speed" exhibit. Here are some pic's of our finished display case. It used 1" thick coated Plexiglas to resist the damaging light given off by the fluorescent lighting (and protect this valuable item of US history from potentially crazy people in the exhibit) and a HEPA filter (you can see it in the bottom of the case).

Anyway, once again I have spun off track from the subject..... kind of, sort of, sorry.

 

You know what they say about assumptions?
No one gave Wikipedia information and I doubt that you are/were in the BMW Service Technician Education Program. If you were you and I would have some common interest and education. lol

 

This is cool! One of my favorite planes. I was on Guam in the 60's when the little known SR71 was flying regular missions.
Its records will most likely be held for years to come. At least the one the USAF are willing to talk about?

 

I'm gonna file these away as one of those "last 1%" solutions. If you're almost there and you've tried everything else, the "80%"* easy stuff like ducts, pads, and fluid, or the "20%" hard stuff like even bigger calipers and rotors, then maybe it's time for titanium backing plates or wheels with special vanes. But until I start getting paid to drive, I'm staying away from little strips of metal worth a couple tanks of gas.

*refers to 80-20 rule aka Pareto principle.

 

No arguments there.

 

:lol::lol: The Mini "Yogi Berra"

"I never said most of the things I said."
Yogi Berra

 

Hey Jonathan.....
Stay connected with Tapatalk, and don't miss any of the fun.

 

We all bounced around a little. Nate set us straight. All is cool.

 

Very cool! I saw on of the SR-71's at the old SAC museum in the early 90's (the museum has been moved since then; saw a picture and it looks like the SR-71 is hanging from the ceiling now). Anyway, it was parked on the tarmac like it was on a used car lot--I couldn't believe it! It looked fast just sitting there...

You could go up and physically touch the thing--here's the fastest plane in the world, and it wasn't roped off or anything. A bunch of stuff at the old SAC museum was like that--just seemed odd that so much high tech stuff was so readily accessible; usually things of this nature are taboo for getting "up close and personal" to. One thing that stuck out was how thin the wings were--they taper to next to nothing.

 

All I can say is they better never ever send this plane (or any of the SR-71's) to the scrapper. The technology was pushed to the extremes, when this thing was built. A true icon. They had to develop manufacturing techniques that weren't available just to deal with the titanium. The plane would leak fuel sitting on the ground and wouldn't seal up until the plane reached operating temperature.

 

My wife Lourie....
This retired SR-71 displayed here is the actual bird that made several records.
Although sealed and sensitive equipment removed you can go under the wheel bay and still see much of the fasteners, lines, ect....

 

Nathan......
Maybe we need to bump part of this thread over to SR-71?

 

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