1st Gen R53 Cooper S Help: grinding noise when accelerating hard....

Discussion in '1st Generation: 2002–06 R50, R53 & 2004–08 R52' started by CheckersSD, Mar 15, 2011.

  1. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

    Mar 30, 2009
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    The mount may still be bad without fresh goo near it. These mounts are a known issue and many have had them fail at low mileage. If not caught right away the goo will harden. All one is left with is a very dirty spot along the beam the mount sits on.

    I went through 2 of these mounts before 40K miles on my car. It has been replaced with the TSW designed mount.
     
  2. CheckersSD

    CheckersSD New Member

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    Thanks Nathan. I am going to go ahead and replace the upper and lower engine mounts with TSW/BSH from Way. Will I need to(or should I) replace the bushing with the powerflex bushings as well?
     
  3. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

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    Which powerflex bushing are you talking about? The TSW upper mount and the BSH lower mount should have you covered. You can also replace the transmission mount (located on the driver's side) but that one will really make the car shake and is better off stock.
     
  4. CheckersSD

    CheckersSD New Member

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    These bushings. I wasn't sure if they were for use with OEM engine mounts or all kinds. I take it just for the OEM mounts?
     
  5. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

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    The two yellow bushings on the left in that top photo are for the transmission mount. I've heard from several people I trust that the transmission mount bushings create way too much NVH and offer little benefit for street-driven cars; they're not worth upgrading. The transmission mounts primarily handle side to side vibration, while the upper and lower engine mounts handle fore and aft rotation and vibration, which is what you see primarily with a longitudinally-mounted front engine.

    The yellow pair on the right and the smaller purple pair are for the OEM lower engine mount. The yellow ones plug into holes in the stock rubber bushing on the engine side, and the purple ones replace the smaller stock bushing on the frame side (someone correct me if I mixed that up). The BSH lower engine mount replaces the entire OEM engine mount: rubber bushings, metal frame, everything. So half of the bushing kit is redundant and the other half is unnecessary, in my opinion.

    See stock lower engine mount with holes here:

    [​IMG]

    OEM MINI lower engine mount R50 R53 - Way Motor Works
     
  6. CheckersSD

    CheckersSD New Member

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    Gotcha, thank you for the clarification! I wasn't sure and was going to ask way before I went ahead and ordered to make sure I wasn't getting more than I needed.
     
  7. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome.

    But don't worry, I wasn't going to pass up a chance to pontificate about MINI parts. :D Way better than waiting for software to load at work...
     
  8. CheckersSD

    CheckersSD New Member

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    yeah and reading about is way better than studying for my final exam that is at 8am.
     
  9. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
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    Dec 17, 2009
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    I'm just curious to know what the cause was and if you get it fixed now. And yes, this is a bunch more fun than putting together the weekly financial metrics for my manager and CFO... :p
     
  10. mini_racer

    mini_racer Well-Known Member

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    Adding a little more.........
    Specific to my Possibility #1
    Depending on the output of your engine and the condition of your motor mounts, you would typically only experience this vibration/grinding-sound in 1st and 2nd gears, for some cases it would only be 1st gear, and yeah pretty close to full throttle.
    There are several things you can do that will help 'a little bit', but my advice is to just fix it once and move on with your life. :Thumbsup: The TSW/WMW poly engine mount will cure excessive engine movement. The other mounts can help, but are not important compared to this one.

    Possibility #3 (Actually related to #1)
    Also, make sure that the front most exhaust hanger for the catback system is in good condition and is properly supporting the system at the proper level. If those red rubber mounts are weak or failing, and/or the hangers on the aftermarket catback are not in the proper position the system could be hanging a bit low and this would mean the header is closer to the X-brace than it should be. Thus making it more likely for a close encounter.

    Good Luck with your Diagnostic adventures!
     
  11. CheckersSD

    CheckersSD New Member

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    Redbeard, I have not been able to get underneath the car yet. I have finals this week for Winter Quarter and have been focusing on my studies. The extent of my diagnoses have been visual inspection of upper engine mount and checking for excessive movement of the engine (by hand and throttle).

    Visual inspection: there is a dark stain under the upper engine mount, however it isn't wet nor is it fresh which leads me to believe the upper engine mount was replaced at sometime prior to my taking ownership. Additionally the dark spot is covered in a light coat of dirt even with the rest of the area around it, reaffirming this is an old stain. There is a wet (or fresh) dark spot, or so it appears, on the back side of the upper engine mount between the canister and strut tower. I can't get my fingers in there to determine if it is wet, but I just thought now I might try sticking a Q-Tip in there to check.

    Excessive movement: With the engine cold, I have rocked the engine back and forth. It doesn't seem to move. However when I lift the engine up and down, the black square gasket on the top of the canister comes up 1/4" above the canister. I am not sure if this is normal and some have said it isn't. I had my friend sit in the car and rev the engine, bot gradual and quick pumps, placing the RPMs up to about 3500-4000. The engine didn't seem to move and there was no noise in the cabin of a vibration.

    I am going to jack up the car on Saturday and remove the engine mount to check it out closer. While I have the car up I will check the forward hangers for the cat-back exhaust to see if they are in good condition. Someone also suggested I check the bushings on the front lower control arm as well as the ball joints. I am hoping it is something I can fix and not have to pay for additional diagnostics and repair. I will update the thread when I find out more.

    If there is anything else I should check Saturday let me know. Also would revving the engine with the car in place cause it to rock enough to hit the X-Brace in the same way it would when I was driving along?
     
  12. mini_racer

    mini_racer Well-Known Member

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    No, it is not under load, so it aint the same!
     
  13. CheckersSD

    CheckersSD New Member

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    Thanks. I wasn't sure because I assumed I would see some torque from the engine.
     
  14. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

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    Yes you have a dead engine mount. Replace that first & check again. Try one thing at a time. If that doesn't do it I'd be checking that x brace for looseness & contact.

    FWIW when my mount died the only symptom I had was an ugly dark stain on the frame rail.
     
  15. CheckersSD

    CheckersSD New Member

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    Well I finally had some time to look under my car. The exhaust is indeed touching the X-Brace, and if it isn't it is really damn close. I will check the engine mount and I will also check the hangers underneath the car.

    Someone told me that the TSW Upper Engine Mount will fix this? The funny thing is this only started happening several days after I installed the X-Brace, so it wasn't touching or making noise the day I installed it, which included some spirited driving home lots of accelerator action.

    Anyhow, here are the pictures I took:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. mini_racer

    mini_racer Well-Known Member

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    Wow, this was so close you did not even need to remove the X-brace to prove the theory. The TSW engine mount will check excessive engine movement and if your existing mount is really bad it could also properly reposition the engine. I believe you really need the TSW poly mount. Engine movement is most severe in 1st and 2nd gears.

    And check that front catback support.
     
  17. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

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    You can take the exhaust down & using a special service tool make clearance.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. CheckersSD

    CheckersSD New Member

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    If the TSW mount doesnt fix the problem I might do that. What part would I adjust?
     
  19. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry, the TSW mount will fix it. No clearancing necessary.
     
  20. Mr. Jim

    Mr. Jim Mudshark
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    I'm having the same thing since on installed the V2 header. The X-brace is about a 1/4 inch from the cat, but I had to lower the rear exhaust mount last year when I installed the B&M shortshifter cover. I have 42,000 on the clock so i ordered a new OEM top engine mount and the BSH lower from Way. I may have to raise the exhaust mount some and I was thinking of putting a spacer on the rear X-Brace mounting points to lower the brace just slightly. I only hear it hitting during take off and some times on desel.
     

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