Most liked posts in thread: How to Save JCW

They may be waiting to use the coupe for those profound additions, but remember profound additions is spelled with $$$$, which leads to the question of just what price point will be too much for MINI?

Ergo the new BMW based on a MINI platform they have been talking about and some are calling the ZERO......

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

Good read. The bigger question to me is buy a JCW now or wait for BMW to get the hint?

Edit* I hope any new changes will be applied across the board. Meaning, I'd like to see more punch in the hatch and couple versions, when they drop.

 

BMW has been developing and it is almost complete, a 2.0 liter Turbocharged motor....

300 HP off the shelf! Add what Jan will be able to tune out of it and you would be looking at somewhere near 350hp without any hard parts!

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

Sounds like it's a choice between a //MINI and a Cooper RS. BMW adds more power and a tighter suspension while charging more, and Porsche reduces weight and bumps up top end power while charging more. But don't hold your breath. People have been asking for lighter, faster M3's ever since the E36 M3 made its way over to this side of the pond.

 

Trust me, if ANY car manufacture where to change to OEM wood spoke wheels clad in steel, and pulled by 2 Yaks they would charge more.

Change=$$$ even small change.

Mark

 

Exactly what most thought the 135 was going to be but didn't turn out that way.... 135 less about 400 pounds and they would be selling them faster than they could make them, but alas it is just too close to the three in price and weight to really stand out on it's own. Nice car though.

Now if MINI were to come out with the coupe in all wheel drive, the new 2 liter motor and well under 3000 pounds... MINI would be spelled MISSILE!!!!!

But the price might require a Roundel to be marketable in numbers....
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

Good points Nate but I think that somehow they have to keep the prices in line with what a JCW truly is, a fun to drive, unique, sporty run-about. Beken recently was at our local dealership and snapped a price list spec from a WC50. Nearly $58K (Canajun) pre-tax. That's insane for a MINI :eek6:

IMHO

 

Some other thoughts...

about why it's not going to happen.

Minis are expensive as is. Adding more low volume parts will only make it more expensive. Ever wonder why the JCW mill isn't getting the standard engine upgrades? I'm guessing it's because the volume doesn't justify the effort. They'd never get the money back.

Even though it's not stated, it seems obvious to me that BMW is choosing to artificially stratify the market. If the JCW became too good, it would tread on BMW market space. Even though I'd guess that what overlap between the buyers of the two marks is small, it seems that it's still there. There are hints of this in a MotoringFile post about a future shared platform, where brand distinction is done through SW and the like. BMW gets high end connected feel, MINI gets second best....

I don't think we'll ever see a 300 HP I4 Turbo in a MINI. At least not from a the factory! Remember that MINI is what delivers a lot of the fleet efficiency so that BMW can sell twin turbo V8 monsters in things like the 750i. Putting 300 HP in a MINI just undermines that corporate goal. Like it or not, MINI will be downsizing, not upsizing.

Really, all that is left is weight reduction (and I personally really like the idea). Taking out what is already there is less expensive than creating low volumen quasi-custom parts. a 10% diet is a 10% increase in power to weight ratio.... And that's where driving dynamics are born.... Just add lightness has worked for many a car, and MINI could benefit from it too!

Anyway, I'm on board with the idea that JCW is right now too close to the current standard cars. But with a self imposed cap on what they will do, JCW is somewhat screwed by corporate choice, not technical nessesity. It's kind of like holding the Cayman back to keep from pisssing off the 911 fans.... A corporate decision that has no technical requirement.

Matt

 

The "average" buyer sees a Mazdaspeed 3, looks at the price of the JCW, looks at the hp difference, and laughs. Most of us understand that there's a lot more to it than that......but it's tough to justify the JCW over the competition.

It's just way too much money. If it was 35k with all the JCW parts included....it's still too much. Great car, too much money.

Hell, at 30k with JCW suspension, the aero kit, brembos, some unique alcantera interior bits and maybe recaros, etc.....it's STILL tough to justify. Much better, but still a tough sell to most people. Give it just 250 hp on top of all that and it's got a better chance.

I understand it's unlikely we'll see a JCW at 30k that's got some real goods, but i've had a long day and giving myself permissin to do some wishful thinking. :lol:

The JCW should be mean. A car that makes most people a little scared to drive it. The MCS is a fun, pretty quick, all around good car. The JCW should be a car that makes people a little nervous, in a good way. If it looks mean, sounds mean, but drives like a MCS with a few more hp....that's not mean. And although i hate internet benchracing, it should be competitive, stock vs. stock, than cars it's priced against.

- andrew

 

Another thing to think about...

is that the M cars sell for about 50% premium over getting into the same platform (depending on how you look at it). That means a MCS "M" would be just shy of $35k. That's getting pretty pricy. Add the options and stuff, and it would clear $40k. I don't see a good business case for that kind of car. The fact that the base price is relatively low (for BMW) to start with doesn't really give a lot of options on what to do. heck, even if it did have a 300 hp turbo I4, would you spend $40k to park it in your driveway? That's a lot of cash....

Matt

 

It's a solid premium for an //M car but the difference is pretty substantial. Compared to MCS vs. JCW where the difference isn't quite as profound.

Not to say that I think the M cars are worth the premium, and unforutnately I don't see myself in the position to make that decision anytime soon. :lol:

Keeping the starting price under 30k is a must do IMO and it must be worth it over an MCS.

Think about the Subaru WRX vs. STI. Before the recent power bump for the WRX, it was a 70 hp difference, brembos, much fancier diffs, different suspension, slightly different looks, 6 speed, different seats, etc. And it was 24k vs about 34k (though you could get STIs for around 32k or less new). Compare that difference to MCS vs. JCW.

- Andrew

 

I'm very surprised MINI / BMW even put the extra design, engineering, and costs associated with the factory JCW block, head, turbo, ECU and transmission etc. There are quite a lot of differences in the JCW unit verses the S. But I guess they were driven by the needs of the Challenge Racing program.

 

Maybe the JCW should be a street-legal version of the Challenge car instead of a slightly modded MCS. Make it less civilized and just allow it to be a pure driver's car. It could even come with an entire box of stickers for those who feel so inclined. =)

 

If JCW were serious about engineering a halo MINI, I think it would look and feel a lot like the GP - lighter, more aero, more power, exclusive color, limited options, and premium price. I say give us the choice of auto or manual, Chili Red or Alpine White, cold weather package, and that's it. Minimize production costs with less "youificaiton" but give the car some beast.

Most MINIs offer so many options that they become a reflection of the owner and his/her personal preferences. MINI should make an alpha car that reflects the JCW badge and its ideals, i.e. it doesn't belong on the option list if JCW doesn't think it belongs on the car.

 

Hence, Justa S:lol:

Mark

 

I read not too long ago that the reason for having a top-tier car like a JCW MINI or a V6 Accord is to make the middle-tier car's price more attractive. If you have a higher priced car above the MCS or an Accord I4 EX, you can price that middle-tier car higher and still have it look reasonable in the mind of the consumer. That top-tier isn't there for people to buy it so much as to let people spend $35,000 on an MCS and say "shoot, that's a lot better than $40,000 for a JCW."

 

Can't find the MSRP for a 2006 MCS JCW, but the GP wasn't that much more than a JCW at the time, was it?

Why not make an "RS" (or another GP) type option on the JCW that gives the car minimal options, a little extra power, standard JCW suspension, and a few weigh-saving things. It could be relatively inexpensive, but offer significant performance improvement.

If I remember correctly, Mitsubishi offered an EVO RS for a while that was actually *cheaper* than the "standard" one because it ditched the CF wing, radio, etc. Now, I know German companies prefer to charge large amounts to add a little and remove stuff (Porsche Boxter Speedster, GT3 RS, M3 CS), but it's not unheard of to offer a good value (GP, Evo RS, etc).

That said, I won't hold my breath.

 

I haven't checked the price on the 2010 JCW, but my 09 came in at $36,750, with $8,200 in options. Remove the options and the base 2009 JCW was $28,550.

 

Interesting, b/c I priced a new JCW on MINI USA recently and base was 29,500.

I also saw a JCW with a similar amount of options, price wise, as yours for sale, for 29,900 and it's an 09 as well.

 

Sorry, the prices I listed were meant as hyperbole, but you get the idea. So long as there is a higher priced JCW model, it subconsciously makes the MCS more appealing. That's the theory anyway.