2nd Gen R56 Cooper S How to screw up an OCC install

Discussion in '2nd Generation: 2007+ R55 through R61' started by oldbrokenwind, Apr 27, 2013.

Tags:
  1. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
    176
    72
    28
    Male
    Retired
    Northern NV
    Ratings:
    +89 / 0 / -0
    My original OCC install consisted of the catch can connected to the line feeding the turbo inlet, nothing else. This means the hose from the valve cover to the intake manifold is still in use. After several months of driving with the OCC, there was still no oil showing on the OCC dipstick. After seeing several online posts with pics of their catch, I did some research.

    According to the Bentley manual, the line to the turbo is used when manifold pressure is “under loadâ€. The line to the intake manifold is used during “deceleration or idleâ€. Since most of my driving is not under load (I use a lot of cruise control and highway driving), the OCC wasn’t getting used. So, the question is, should I cap the manifold line, or route it to an OCC? Because of cost and ease of installation, I took the cap option. Bought two vent caps from my local Audi dealer, part number 036131510, removed the hose, and installed them. Peugeot also sells them as #0361.S4, and ECS Tuning sells them online, all for about $10 each. Didn’t take long to catch oil in the OCC. Hard part is figuring out how to remove the hose without breaking it. Once you see how the vent cap is designed, it’s pretty easy to figure out.

    After a couple tanks of gas, I noticed crankcase oil level was down a quart. This is the first time this has happened - this engine hasn’t burned oil in the 20K miles / 2 years I’ve driven it. First guess is crankcase pressure is forcing oil past the valve stems into the combustion chamber. This implies the vent plugs I just installed messed things up. So, I ordered a Dual Boost Tap, bought some hose and a “tee†fitting, and connected the rear (passenger side) valve cover outlet to the existing OCC. While in there, I disconnected the turbo air inlet hose for a quick look. Worst fears realized --- oil puddle in the air chamber!

    Made a couple calls about turbo repair / replacement. One shop that knows Garrett turbos, told me that high crankcase pressure can cause oil to “backflow†thru the turbo oil drain line, and cause the symptoms I’m seeing. Resolve the high crankcase pressure issue, and the oil consumption problem will go away. Then there’s an oily mess to clean up --- from the turbo air outlet to the intake manifold. This is several months after the initial OCC install. I’ve created the very mess the OCC was installed to prevent! The WMI system should keep the rest of the lines clean, once the oil source is removed.

    After reading some of the various threads on OCC’s, oil consumption, and bad smells, it’s my guess that they have a similar problem --- 2 vent caps installed, or a dual boost tap adapter connected with the plug installed. I still don’t understand how this adapter can read boost when it’s connected to the crankcase / valve cover vent line. Maybe if installed at the manifold end of the hose and then plugged, but I don’t know what’s happening inside the throttle control box.

    Anyhow, I installed a BSH Dual Boost Port Adapter on the valve cover, in place of the hose --- plugged the boost port connections, but not the main vent. Then routed a hose from this adapter to a “tee†I added to the OCC inlet hose. I’m trusting the Bentley manual when it indicates that only one of the two vents are active at any time.

    After a lot of oil cleanup, a month or so of driving, and a couple tanks of gas, there seems to be no more oil consumption or leakage thru the turbo. It’s pretty easy to remove my turbo inlet hose to check it.

    There are those who say I’m “all wet†with this theory, ‘cause they’ve had virtually no problem with their OCC single line install. It’s my belief that it’s all dependent on driving habits --- with the rear “low pressure†vent plugged, there is little or no pressure relief in the crankcase, so it builds up until it finds a path out --- in my case, the turbo seal. I’ve read where others have leaking valve cover gaskets --- another probable pressure relief path. My valve cover has been removed / replaced a couple times, so not a weak spot. The “burning oil†smell often noticed, in my case was probably from the oil puddle in the turbo air inlet chamber. When the engine is off, fumes can escape thru the air filter. There was also oil residue on the turbo outer surface, and the oil hoses aren’t leaking.

    S, the reason for this post is to offer a solution to those of you with similar “sudden oil consumption†after an OCC install.
     
  2. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Sep 29, 2009
    12,549
    7,423
    113
    Owner of a small custom metal fabrication company,
    Columbus, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +7,435 / 0 / -0
    Good read....
    I too have the two Audi block off caps in place and have been monitoring the effectiveness of the single OCC on the turbo inlet side.... So far no oil smell.... but that could be a matter of time until that shows up. I did have a case of the valve cover relief valve burping (once) but I attribute that to the cold winter temperatures and the fact that I wasn't reaching correct operating temperatures by the time I got to work (short trip). I suspected I was generating some quantity of "mayonnaise" in the PCV maze. With another recent oil change and warmer temperatures.... no "mayonnaise" and no burping of the relief valve....
    When I still had the rear OEM line connected to the intake manifold at the throttle valve and the OCC connected to the turbo inlet, I collected large quantities of water and oil distillate...

    I think you are correct with the rear plug and the back pressure at the turbo oil bearing...

    At this point I'm headed in the direction of a second OCC modification to my original OCC on the cold side turbo attachment. The two canisters will be separate but attached.... One will catch the condensate on the turbo side and the second (new) will catch the condensate at the rear valve cover leading to the intake manifold..... In effect going back to the OEM line connection but having one OCC can spliced into each line....

    Very similar to what is offered by Saikou Michi (that makes a dual specific for the N14 engine)
    1_zps08aa4031.jpg

    Saikou Michi Co. 2013
    PC280065_zpsc7ef66c0.jpg

    Thanks for posting your finding oldbrokenwind....

    I will be interested in how effective you are able to catch the oil vapors on just the cold turbo connection.... I suspect the vacuum that's present on the rear connection when off boost helps with movement of the oil laden fumes...
     
  3. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
    176
    72
    28
    Male
    Retired
    Northern NV
    Ratings:
    +89 / 0 / -0
    My "tee" connection won't allow me to separate the source of OCC contents --- both vents feed the same OCC and the OCC output feeds the turbo input. The manifold input is still capped. My results are still preliminary - not a lot of mileage on the tee connection, but looking positive so far --- the oil consumption problem is gone! There is still a bit of vacuum on the OCC, from the turbo sucking air, just not as much as the manifold vacuum provides. I don't plan to hook up a vacuum gauge to measure it. I've got a gauge, but getting the hose and gauge where the driver / passenger can see it while driving, is too big a nuisance. I'm content with the end results.

    From your OCC results, your driving habits seem to include more "spirited" driving habits than mine. But then, I'm located close to the middle of nowhere --- 15 miles to the nearest major community.

    I should have done more research on OCC's. The Saikou Michi dual system appears to be ideal for the N14. A lot better than two separate single input cans. Space is scarce under the hood.
     
  4. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Sep 29, 2009
    12,549
    7,423
    113
    Owner of a small custom metal fabrication company,
    Columbus, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +7,435 / 0 / -0
    Heh Heh.... You noticed that.....:D

    I'm tempted to do the "Tee", just as a trial... I have the T fitting... I may do this while I'm modifying my second OCC....

    I need to "Slice & Dice" this one to get it to fit and I'll need to reposition the two fittings to minimise the bends to the hose...

    [​IMG]

    I plan to attach the second can at about the 11 o'clock position to this one that's already installed...

    [​IMG]

    Just enough room.... I think...

    [​IMG]
     
  5. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
    176
    72
    28
    Male
    Retired
    Northern NV
    Ratings:
    +89 / 0 / -0
    I've got a couple cheesy pics of my tee fitting and hose (both ends) in my "garage". Eventually, I'll get better pics. The rear connection is strictly homemade --- one hose (the one to the tee) inside another, with the larger hose on the dual port adapter. I stuffed a metal pipe inside the smaller hose, to give it some rigidity --- for clamping the two hoses together.

    Nice you have a strut bar for mounting things. I'm working on finding one to fit around my K & N Typhoon air filter.
     
  6. countryboyshane

    countryboyshane New Member

    Jul 23, 2009
    202
    77
    0
    Diesel Engineering
    Bloomfield Hills, MI
    Ratings:
    +77 / 0 / -0
    I ran into the same problem when I did the PCV delete mod on the intake manifold and front of the engine thinking all would be routed effortlessly to the turbo. Had the exact same problem with oil consumption and it was very visible. Thick grey smoke in instances. I ended up going back to the OEM PCV system and cleaned out the turbo, intercooler, and all boost tubes in the winter months.

    Cleaning the intake is not that big of a deal to me and I'd rather have the car not guzzling oil.
     
  7. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2010
    2,852
    1,390
    113
    Engineer
    Pacific NW
    Ratings:
    +1,507 / 0 / -0
    I have an oil catch can on the turbo PCV line and a BSH dual boost tap blocking off the PCV line to the throttle body. My car uses about a pint of oil every 5000 miles.

    I wonder if those who have high oil consumption with this setup have a malfunctioning PCV valve?

    Dave
     
  8. Jason Montague

    Jason Montague New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Jan 5, 2010
    6,134
    1,587
    0
    Physician Assitant (retired)
    Sherman,Tx
    Ratings:
    +1,587 / 0 / -0
    :cornut: Me Too Dave.(08 R56 BRG MCS/JCWm):Thumbsup:

    Jason
     
  9. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
    176
    72
    28
    Male
    Retired
    Northern NV
    Ratings:
    +89 / 0 / -0
    Before adding the OCC, my oil consumption between changes wasn't measurable. 1 pint / 5000 miles isn't significant enough to worry about either. It would be interesting to know how dry your turbo air intake chamber is --- should be no oil film anywhere, if there's no back pressure.

    There is a possibility my PCV system is malfunctioning, but it's doubtful. The system seems to be functioning as described in the Bentley manual (pages 130-53 & 130-54). When the rear vent is blocked, pressure builds up until the other vent opens.

    Again, I believe it's all dependent on driving habits. Mine are extremely "tame".
     
  10. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
    176
    72
    28
    Male
    Retired
    Northern NV
    Ratings:
    +89 / 0 / -0
    Here's the two pics promised earlier. One showing the hose mess at the dual port adapter, the other showing the OCC and "tee" connection.

    IMG_1513.jpg

    IMG_1514.jpg
     
  11. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
    176
    72
    28
    Male
    Retired
    Northern NV
    Ratings:
    +89 / 0 / -0
    Just finished a dual OCC install, and cleaned up my turbo air inlet plumbing. Bought one of the Saikou Michi dual OCC's, with a Drain Extension kit. Here's a photo. They also fab'd the 3" tee's for me.

    Now to put some miles on it and check oil consumption.

    Connecting the rear PCV hoses could be a lot easier if there was a fitting with the PCV connection on one side and a hose connection on the other. The N18 uses one, but it's attached to the hose and not available separately from the dealer. Anyone know of a source?
     

    Attached Files:

  12. HurricaneDave

    HurricaneDave New Member

    Apr 9, 2012
    99
    34
    0
    Tellecommunications Engineer
    Ball Ground, GA
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -0
    Oldbrokenwind's old Single BSH OCC installed on my N18.


    Thanks again for the help on the install!
     

    Attached Files:

  13. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

    Oct 18, 2012
    176
    72
    28
    Male
    Retired
    Northern NV
    Ratings:
    +89 / 0 / -0
    Here's an embarrassing update --- the dual OCC was NOT a fix! Turns out that my PCV was shot, preventing crankcase pressure from escaping to the turbo inlet. Changing the valve cover seems to have fixed it ('course, that's what I said about the dual OCC), but since I seldom "get on it", it's still up in the air.

    Here's a link to the thread that educated me --- http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/cooper-s/19615-rising-crankcase-pressure-when-using-bsh-occ.html#axzz2onnEIWBx maybe it'll help.
     
  14. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Sep 29, 2009
    12,549
    7,423
    113
    Owner of a small custom metal fabrication company,
    Columbus, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +7,435 / 0 / -0
    I'm going to suggest now with the new valve cover and correctly operating PCV valve, there is still some benefit with the dual OCC in its ability to collect the oil fumes that would cause the carbon buildup on the intake valves...
     
  15. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

    Jun 4, 2009
    18,574
    9,098
    113
    Retired old fart
    Hooterville Ohio USA
    Ratings:
    +9,718 / 1 / -0
    If 2 is good, isn't 3 moar better???
     

Share This Page