I checked the strut to make sure it was seated properly. Both the driver's side and passenger side are seated the same. Both strut mounts are sitting EXACTLY the same on both sides. They look like mirrored versions of each other. The passenger side is sitting fine. The drivers side has a lot of positive camber. The struts seated all the way down on the wheel knuckles. The wheel knuckle is sitting flush on the ball joint. The lower control arms are sitting exactly the same on both sides. I checked the wheel bearing hub and it's sitting the same on both sides. Everything is torqued down to spec and both sides look the same. I just don't understand where the positive camber is coming from on the drivers side. I just can't find anything that looks wrong or not properly installed. I took plenty of time with it, I had 3 of my other mechanic friends look at it, and they have no clue what's wrong with it. :mad2: Onasled Racing, here's the plates viewed from above them. They are still the the IE Fixed Plates so I should be getting PLENTY of negative camber from them. Still doesn't make sense to me about how I'm getting positive camber on 1 side only! :confused5: Drivers side strut mount: Passenger side strut mount:
OK, so you can spin the wheel and no wobble.? Looking at the angle (what I can see) of the strut top that sticks up through the camber plate, it would seem that in fact you have negative camber. So, yea, maybe that hub is somehow askew.
Yeah, everything feels tight. No wobble or anything. As for the hub, I checked it out today. It's fine. There's nothing apparent of this causing an issue. I even unbolted it and reinstalled it. Still have the same problem! :incazzato: I know everything was installed correctly and everything was installed on the proper side. I double checked everything, and had someone else check it to make sure it was right. I didn't want to run into some stupid problem this time around. Sure enough, I still have a problem! The only other idea that comes to my head is that something is messed up with the wheel carrier itself. I bought a used set from Way for a good price. I didn't want to have to drill out the old one and use a through bolt or re-tap it. Is there a difference between 2005 wheel carriers and the others years? (up to 2006 that is...) I'm probably not going to get the chance to look at it again until friday though, so I'll take EVERY idea as to what the problem could be here.
Well, I just was doing some research on the wheel carriers. From PenskeParts.com, they have 2 different parts break downs for the wheel carriers. 1 is for "to 03/02" and the other one is for "from 03/02". Both have the same part number though, so I don't believe there to be any kind of issue with model years. I'm just running out of ideas here :confused5:
Devide and conquer.... I'd try the control arm assy, the steering knuckle assy, and... Well that's all, I guess. Swap one at a time to the old parts and see when you get your wheel camber back! When you find it, it's gonna be something simple. Matt
I'm kind of surprised the bearing race is exposed like that. Is there a dust cover that goes over the top that just isn't in place?
It is strange. I looked over that picture of all your parts and see nothing to alert me. Being you said that you can spin the wheel freely then my first thought that the top of the tire is up against the new coilover is canceled out. You have put the car on the ground and rolled it around to make sure all is settled? Even then it still looks too far + in your pic. Don't think the cast carrier could bend in an accident if it was in one. ?? Inner ball joints on the correct side?
Metalman - Yeah it use to have the little black plastic pieces, but the new suspension sits up much farther than the stock suspension in the plates, so I'm gonna drill a hole in the plastic pieces and slide them down over it to stop any debris from getting in there. Dr Obnxs - The drivers side wheel knuckle was the one with the broken bolt, lol. So I don't know when I'd be able to try to get that apart to try that, but that's exactly was I was planning on doing though. Replace 1 part at a time and see if anything changes. You don't think something is messed up with the strut itself do you? In the instructions, it said the not use any kind of impact wrench because it could damage the strut internally, so I made sure I didn't use one on it. Onasled Racing - I was thinking the same thing originally. I thought it might be up against the spring but I looked under the wheel well and all was fine. I also checked, and double checked everything to make sure everything was on the proper sides. I even had someone else verify them for me to make sure they were right. So I know the inner ball joints are on the proper sides. I'm thinking maybe something might be messed up with the wheel carrier. I don't know how something that beefy could be damaged without you knowing it, but I'll need to have the bolt drilled out of my old carrier (it broke when I tried to remove the strut from earlier in this thread) and I'll see if that changes anything. I just am running out of options here. :confused5:
I was just talking to one of my friends. Keep in mind he has no personal knowledge on MINI Coopers, but he did go to school to be an auto mechanic. He told me I should bring it somewhere to get it aligned anyways and this would fix the problem. I don't really know if I trust that solution. I don't see how having them do an alignment on it would fix the camber issues I have. I just thought I'd throw it out there and see what you guys think. I'm still thinking it is an issue with the wheel knuckle or a defect with the strut itself. Here's some more pics of the strut mounts. You can see that they are basically mirrored versions of one another..... Passenger side: Drivers side: Judging by these pictures, I should be getting negative camber. The only thing I can think of is the wheel carrier itself is causing the issue. I will try and get the old one drilled out so I can use it, and see if that solves the problem. If not, I'll be replacing everything else one at a time with old parts until it's fixed. If after that I still have issues, I'm calling Tein up and telling them they sent me a defective part! :mad5:
The tie rods are both the original ones. I didn't change them since they appeared to be in decent condition. My buddy just told me to unbolt the sway bar end links and see if that changes anything. I don't know if it will, but that's an easy task to do so I'll try that tomorrow, and hopefully it'll fix the problem. It kinda makes sense to me what he said. He said that maybe since I have so much negative camber on one side that the sway bar is countering the camber on the other side. The negative camber on the passenger side looks identical to the positive camber on the drivers side. So I think it's worth a shot! I know the sway bar is used to transfer the compression of one side to another, but maybe it's somehow causing this problem. And if it is, how would they balance out with having the sway bar connected??? I did drop the passenger side down first and then the drivers side after. Maybe the bar was somehow tweaked and is the problem. I will see though. Hopefully tomorrow I can try it out.
Here's the pics of the front wheels. The drivers side doesn't look quite as bad in this pic (I was a little closer towards the middle of the car for that pic) but they really are both sitting at the same angle........
Understand the parts.... A strut could only do this if it were really, really bent. So where can this dagree of mis-allignemetn come from? From something that changes either the tilt of the wheel, or the length of the lower control arm including the ball joints and the like. Tie rod length could change toe, but not camber (at least not a lot, camber and toe couple via caster). So you are really left with.... Massively bent strut.... Problem with the carrier seating on the knuckle.... Problems with the knuckle.... Problems with the control arm.... Problems with the ball joint mounting..... Seating of the sub-frame on the chassis (or would that be the chassis on the subframe????) The notion of getting an alignment to fix it would be a good one if camber were adjustable. But it's not.... Anyway, it will suck figuring it out, but you'll learn on the way.... Matt
That's what I told my friend. The camber is not adjustable, unless you buy a set of camber plates. As for everything else you stated..... "Massively bent strut...." I think this would be something I would notice..... "Problem with the carrier seating on the knuckle...." I checked that. The strut is sitting on flush on all sides of the knuckle. The only possibility would be it is bent or angled slightly wrong..... "Problems with the knuckle...." This is something that could be an issue here. Maybe the knuckle itself is slightly bent or angled wrong. I'll save this for last. I will need to drill and tap the strut mount bolt on the old one to put it back into place. This will be the last thing I try to do..... "Problems with the control arm...." I checked both control arms against the original ones on the car. Both were identical in length, width, and overall shape, including the ball joint hole angles and hole locations. I don't believe this to be the issue..... "Problems with the ball joint mounting....." I checked this before and after I installed the struts. They all appeared to be ok. Everything was torqued down to spec, and all looked properly seated. They might have been slightly angled differently though, and this will be one of the things I replace with the original parts (one at a time)..... Seating of the sub-frame on the chassis (or would that be the chassis on the subframe????) I don't even believe this to be an issue here. I didn't remove the subframe from the chassis. I pressed the bushings into place while the mounts were still attached to the chassis and subframe. I will check this though, just to make sure..... Thanks for the info guys! I will take everything apart again, changing out 1 thing at a time to see if that fixes it. It'll take a while, but it'll be worth it in the end!
I am wondering about one thing with this problem. Was the drivers side camber + before the camber plates were installed? The title of this thread suggests it was not.
LOL! I wish that was the case :lol: No, when I installed the fixed camber plates, they both had negative camber. The camber was fine before the plates, and after I installed the plates, they were still fine. Something went awry with the install. Figuring out what happened is going to be the hard part......
Question about your camber plates: You installed them originally on OEM-diameter springs. Are they also designed to fit smaller diameter coilover springs? The IE adjustable street camber plates have a note that says "Note: These plates do not work with the Tein adjustable SS+ front shocks." I think yours are the fixed plates, but I wonder if the springs are not interfacing properly with the upper strut mounts. http://store.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/product_detail.asp?RowID=592&CS=ireland&All= EDIT: Although I'm not sure that would affect camber so much as it'd affect ride height.
Well, the Tein SS Coilover front springs are the same diameter spring as the OEM springs. They reuse the original upper spring seat. The camber plates themselves are the IE Fixed Plates. They aren't designed to be used with any kind of lowering springs or suspension as they usually add too much negative camber. For why the street adjustable camber plates won't fit, I don't know. There isn't a disclaimer for either of the other 2 plates (race adjustable or fixed). It might be since the strut sticks out of the plates relatively far, so that might be the reason behind it. I don't think the plates have any bearing on the camber angle issue I'm having, seeing as how they are sitting the same on both sides, but only 1 side is having a problem. I still have the original plates I can use if I still can't get it corrected. That'll probably be one of the last things I try.