The '07+ Mini's also have a seat position sensor for the drivers seat. This activates one of two charges for presumably the drivers front airbag. One for drivers that are sitting up close and one for those sitting further back. The seat position sensor consists of a set of magnets mounted on the stock sliders. As an FYI if you use the Brey Krause brackets on the factory sliders, you can easily maintain this functionality and only lose the side airbag.
Wow, this has become a great thread full of comprehensive and useful information. With what SK8BRD comes up with in terms of circuit and parameters, it would make a nice meta-thread, if not a library entry. Nathan: this kind of thread reminds me of Wikipedia--a comprehensive encyclopedic entry that can be built and edited by all. Perhaps the library could be built as a wiki in that fashion?
Thanks for the addition! Just to clarify; the '05-'06 R53's also have a passenger seatbelt indicator sensor along with the occupant detector mat?
Yes - there are two plugs on the seatbelt itself - the indicator and the yellow pretensioner charge. I did testing with my installed OC3 to confirm operation: 1) Seatbelt unplugged, nobody present - no occupant detected light, no ding 2) Seatbelt unplugged, person present - no occupant detected light, warning ding for seatbelt 3) Seatbelt plugged in, nobody present - no occupant detected light, no warning ding 4) Seatbelt plugged in, person present - occupant detected light ON, no warning ding
Hmm... would disconnecting the passenger seatbelt indicator sensor be one possible way to work around the lack of a passenger weight sensor? In other words, the seatbelt WOULD be used by the passenger but the car wouldn't know it. I imagine this brings up all kinds of safety concerns (would the passenger-side airbags even fire in the event of an accident, since the car doesn't think anyone's in the seat? How about the seatbelt pre-tensioner?) but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway.
More than anything... the car would drive you crazy with the incessant dinging because it doesn't think the passenger is using their seatbelt. i.e. the seat sensor tells the car there is someone there, but the seatbelt sensor tell it they are not using the seatbelt.
You're missing my point... because the weight sensor wouldn't be telling the car that someone is there... as there wouldn't even be a weight sensor. It's just a theory - remove both the weight sensor and the seat belt indicator sensor at the same time. Resistors would be used where necessary so that the car thinks the sensor is actually there, but that the device isn't being used (seat and seatbelt, accordingly). Please note: I'm not a moron and I don't want this crazy idea to kill anyone. That's why it's a theory.
Gotcha... I missed the part about disabling the seatbelt sensor as a way of bypassing the seat sensor. One, from what I have learned thus far, I don't think the passenger side airbags would fire at all. Second, the seat sensor cannot be fooled with a simple resistor. My understanding is that it is a Hall switch and actually contains some rather sophisticated electronics. That being said, I would love to find a way to just tell the system that there will always be a passenger so just fire the stupid airbags.
Well that's a show-stopper right there. I knew that it was sophisticated (as noted very well from previous posts in this thread)... but for every "foolproof" system out there, there's an even greater fool who will find a way to defeat it! :crazy: I like that idea... and I imagine that's how the Euro versions of our MINIs function (at least the 05/06 1st Gens).
All great ideas. But if I have a passenger present (it could be my 8 yr old daughter or my 45 year old friend), I want the bags to go off but you also want them to be wearing a seatbelt. So I want the car to remind them to fasten their belt with a warning chime if not connected, and I want the airbags to fire with an appropriate force -- less for my daughter and fully for my friend. I can't see any way around this other than installing the weight sensor in the racing seat and placing a shunt resistor across the seat airbag socket. Oh by the way, I installed the belt pre-tensioner and belt-present sensor on to my Brey Krause mounts--not easy and destroyed the OEM seats getting them out, but they are present and working.
Spot on! Has anyone tested their setup to see if passenger side air bag is turned off for a light weight passenger? I put my fist into the passenger seat today and could get the light to come on.
Did you measure the resistor you used before attaching it to the wires? I only ask because resistors usually have terrible tolerances. The one you used should have had red red black bands, and another band to indicate tolerance. No band is plus or minus 20%, silver is 10%, gold is 5%. The first three bands indicate value of the resistor, last is tolerance. Here is the colors vs numbers guide Black - 0 Brown - 1 Red - 2 Orange - 3 Yellow - 4 Green - 5 Blue - 6 Violet (Purple) - 7 Grey - 8 White - 9 basically in rainbow order, or like they taught us way back when Bad - Black - 0 Boys - Brown - 1 Rape - Red - 2 Only - Orange - 3 Young - Yellow - 4 Girls - Green - 5 But - Blue - 6 Violet - Purple - 7 Gives - Grey - 8 Wiliingly - White - 9 So red red black would be 2.2 x ten raised to the zero power or 2.2 ohms, which depending on the manufacturing tolerance could be anywhere from 1.8 to 2.6 ohms.
I think a wiki model would work great for something like this. It's confusing sometimes to sort through all the posts to get to the final answer. Also, could some of the common "everybody know this" stuff be included? I reminded of when I first started racing my sailboat. There was a whole set of mods that everyone did, but weren't written down anywhere. Someone would come on your boat, notice a problem and say "Haven't you done the split backstay mod yet?" My Light in Sight mod comes to mind. As well as the third brake light flasher. Both things are less than five minute mods, but are good candidates for a library/common mod list.
Yep I measure the resistance before connecting it. I bought the tightest tolerance resistor that I could, in a 2.2 it was a 5%. In practice, I had several 2.2 ohm resistors and I put my meter on each of them finding one that was the closets match. The 2.2 ohm labeled resistor that I used fluctuated between 2.3 and 2.4 ohms, basically what I measured from the airbag. I also checked the resistance of the plug after I soldered the resistor on to make sure I didn't induce more resistance with a bad solder. Tonight I worked on the drivers seat: I got the stock seatbelt receiver installed onto the Brey Krause bracket Got the bracket installed on the stock sliders. Mounted all the electronics and installed the seat. Everything is good, the seat holds you like crazy! The only function the seat belt provides is keeping you from coming through the windshield when you hit the brakes. I did run into several issues that I had to work around: 1. The Brey Krause brackets did not fit the stock sliders perfectly. I had to slot some of the bolt holes with my dremel. 2. The seat position sensor consists of two parts, a sensor on top of the stock slider and a magnet mounted in a plastic holder on the outer front part of the slider base. The Brey Krause brackets interfered with the plastic magnet holder. I ended up dremelling the plastic magnet holder and double side sticky taping it to the rail. Not really the best solution but it's what I did. 3. The Sparco Evo 2 Plus seats barely fit into the Mini. The shoulder bolsters are right up against the side of the B pillar. Given I am 6'5" and have the seat almost all the way back... Speaking of that, this is the first time I have needed to not have the seat all the way back. I am guessing I gained almost 3 inches of leg room and maybe an inch or more of head room. I can actually sit in the seat with a helmet on and my head does not touch the roof. (I have a sunroof, for reference).
The problem with a wiki at this time is more technical than anything else. The one hack out that bridges vBulletin, the software this site uses, to Mediawiki, the wiki supported by the one hack, is flawed. Hence we have a library. I have asked the Library Moderators to keep an eye on this thread and turn it into an article, cross linking the two. As to a common mod list a sticky post for the each gens common mods that cross references the library article on the same thing should be just as effective. I'm open to other suggestions..and lets move it to site feedback please. See http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/site-feedback/900-wiki.html
As a follow up:I spoke with my local dealer and they confirmed that in the R56's the seat sensor is coded to the vehicle. So, if I was to buy a new sensor it would have to be programmed. They were unsure if having the airbags bypassed with resistors would cause an issue with pairing the new seat sensor. They said the vehicle might or might not require and ECU update, they wouldn't know until they connect the vehicle. With all those variables, I have decided to remove the sensor from my existing seat. I hope that the sensor in the R56's is close enough in size to that of the R53 so that it will fit in my Sparco.
I finished the installation, none of the airbag lights are on and the passenger seat sensor has been retro fitted into the new seat. I am going to do a write up soon, but in the mean time, here are some pictures: