Suspension Brakes Most liked posts in thread: Installing springs

TSW springs on the R56 work great no regrets about going with them.

 

-1.3 should be fine, especially with a 22mm rear sway bar. Drive it for a while and see. I find that you really figure out how the car handles when you drive in the rain. So wait for a good rainy day to make judgments.

 

Nope..

I'm saying that 0.2 degrees is such a small difference most will never notice it. Just start somewhere, drive, see how you like it and how the tires wear. Any of the specs stated here would be at best a starting point for figuring out what's best for you, how you drive, and what you drive on (freeways, turns whatever). Read the wear and go from there!

Matt

 

Exactly.

 

The difference is so dramatic

I often wonder why the cars come with the camber settings asss-backwards! The best single thing MINI could do for the car is to sell it stock with about -1 to -1.5 degrees camber up front, and a bit less in the rear! They'd still have factory understeer, that all the manufacturers like for safety, but they'd have much less of it and really kick more competition butt when it comes do handling, without really increasing tire wear for the freeway drivers!

Matt

 

LOL It is a great difference!!!

 

Neg front camber rocks mightily. I have to cut Dr. O some slack for being wrong about most things because he is soooooooo right about this one. :lol:

Just kidding. Dr O is right about most things. Having to do with MINIs. :lol:

 

Really...

after driving a car with the suspension set up, it makes one wonder why we all start with power parts! Just a few fixes (the minimum set would be fixed camber plates, a mild rear bar, and sticky tires) really transform the whole driving experience so much! Makes it so much easier to use what the car has to offer.

Matt

 

There is another tid-bit of truth in what you've done as well....

by improving the way the front contact patch is maintained, you increase your cornering limits. This is the key to the higher corner speeds. While you can tune out understeer with just rear bar, the poor contact patch managment at the front of the car results in less adhesion than with the camber improvements. So the car doesn't understeer, but it starts to scrub sooner than when the plates are installed.

While putting in camber plates is more complex than a rear bar because it changes toe and you have to get an alignment, the rewards are more!

And you get a bonus of longer tire life as well... Over time, my savings in tires paid for a significant portion of my suspension changes.

Enjoy your new set up!

Matt

 

Is there any real reward in just doing springs, rear arms and sway bar without the camber plates, or do you need to do it all to get real gains?

Jim

 

You will get real gains

but you will be leaving tons on the table. Think of it this way.... There is about 80 square inches of contact where the tires are touching the road. If you don't take care of that small amount of real estate, there is only so much you can do.

Personally, I think everyone should START with camber plates up front, then do the rest. You fix what you can with geometry, and then tune with stuff like bars and damper settings. The only reason not to go this way is if you are in a racing class where camber plates will kick you out of your class due to the rules of the class.

Fix the geoemetery as best you can, then tune to suit. It's a pretty standard approach with street cars for a reason.

Matt

 

Yes it will absolutely improve handling and is very worth while. But the adjustable front camber plates complete the package and give you another place for adjustment...

 

I agree with Matt about the front camber plates. They should come first!
But all of this really depends on you and what you are looking for in the end. Yea, the springs and rear bar can be felt and in general adds to the feeling of speed and stability on the road and track, but is not always faster. When it comes down to it, chassis and suspension set up is a endless task, so it seems sometimes. This is where the word Geometry really comes into play. :crazy:

 

I used to have an ongoing debate with meb over on NAM

he was a huge fan of lowering on the stock struts. Me, not so much. The car has limited travel, and if you lower the car on the stock struts you eat a lot of that up. This has to be countered with stiffer springs to stay off the bump-stops all the time. This also moves the roll center and increases roll couple. Stiffer spring yet again. You become a cat chasing it's tail.....

But there is no denying that you can up the handling with lowering, and rear bar and control arms. It's just not the way I'd do it. But many have and many are happy. I'm just not one of them.

If you really want to dig into this stuff, start with "How to make your car handle" by Fred Phun, it's a standard book on handling that pretty much everyone who cares to learn the subject read at one time or another.

Matt