-1.3 should be fine, especially with a 22mm rear sway bar. Drive it for a while and see. I find that you really figure out how the car handles when you drive in the rain. So wait for a good rainy day to make judgments.
Nope.. I'm saying that 0.2 degrees is such a small difference most will never notice it. Just start somewhere, drive, see how you like it and how the tires wear. Any of the specs stated here would be at best a starting point for figuring out what's best for you, how you drive, and what you drive on (freeways, turns whatever). Read the wear and go from there! Matt
Alignment's done. neg 2.0 front. neg 1.5 rear, 0 toe all around. Handles like a dream. I'll watch the tire wear. Thanks to all for the help and advice.
The difference is so dramatic I often wonder why the cars come with the camber settings asss-backwards! The best single thing MINI could do for the car is to sell it stock with about -1 to -1.5 degrees camber up front, and a bit less in the rear! They'd still have factory understeer, that all the manufacturers like for safety, but they'd have much less of it and really kick more competition butt when it comes do handling, without really increasing tire wear for the freeway drivers! Matt
After experiencing the difference this did for my car I agree. I never knew just how much understeer it had until I made these changes. I can't go back now. :nonod:
Neg front camber rocks mightily. I have to cut Dr. O some slack for being wrong about most things because he is soooooooo right about this one. :lol: Just kidding. Dr O is right about most things. Having to do with MINIs. :lol:
Follow up Report I had the car at Summit Point Shenandoah course over the weekend. After the springs, camber plate and sway bar installation the car handled like a champ. It rotated with ease. I'm extremely pleased with the way it handled. It's like a different car.
Really... after driving a car with the suspension set up, it makes one wonder why we all start with power parts! Just a few fixes (the minimum set would be fixed camber plates, a mild rear bar, and sticky tires) really transform the whole driving experience so much! Makes it so much easier to use what the car has to offer. Matt
I agree. It especially makes sense for a Justa. Not much to be gained power wise no matter what you do. Money is much better spent on suspension. And lets not forget that more speed through the turns results in more speed in the straights. I was consistantly tracking out carrying an additional 5 to 8 mph more speed which translates to 10+ mph by the end of a moderate straight. Power can create speed but suspension makes it possible to maintain speed, which can be equally as important.
There is another tid-bit of truth in what you've done as well.... by improving the way the front contact patch is maintained, you increase your cornering limits. This is the key to the higher corner speeds. While you can tune out understeer with just rear bar, the poor contact patch managment at the front of the car results in less adhesion than with the camber improvements. So the car doesn't understeer, but it starts to scrub sooner than when the plates are installed. While putting in camber plates is more complex than a rear bar because it changes toe and you have to get an alignment, the rewards are more! And you get a bonus of longer tire life as well... Over time, my savings in tires paid for a significant portion of my suspension changes. Enjoy your new set up! Matt
Is there any real reward in just doing springs, rear arms and sway bar without the camber plates, or do you need to do it all to get real gains? Jim
You will get real gains but you will be leaving tons on the table. Think of it this way.... There is about 80 square inches of contact where the tires are touching the road. If you don't take care of that small amount of real estate, there is only so much you can do. Personally, I think everyone should START with camber plates up front, then do the rest. You fix what you can with geometry, and then tune with stuff like bars and damper settings. The only reason not to go this way is if you are in a racing class where camber plates will kick you out of your class due to the rules of the class. Fix the geoemetery as best you can, then tune to suit. It's a pretty standard approach with street cars for a reason. Matt
Yes it will absolutely improve handling and is very worth while. But the adjustable front camber plates complete the package and give you another place for adjustment...
I agree with Matt about the front camber plates. They should come first! But all of this really depends on you and what you are looking for in the end. Yea, the springs and rear bar can be felt and in general adds to the feeling of speed and stability on the road and track, but is not always faster. When it comes down to it, chassis and suspension set up is a endless task, so it seems sometimes. This is where the word Geometry really comes into play. :crazy: