Umm, roach13, didja read the thread or just shoot a reply? BMWCCA doesn't really want us, is what it boils down to, and we're not as large an owners community as BMW and so it's more difficult to support our own national organization. This does vary by chapter, though. The Allegheny chapter here in the 'burgh definitely welcomes Minis - but this is a Very Recent Change, and is also not unanimous among their members, I'm afraid. My Mini was laughingly called a "starter BMW", to my face, by a BMW CCA member. While he was laughing and joking, it was fairly obvious that this was only partly in jest. That said, at the highest local levels, our Club and BMWCCA enjoy an EXCELLENT working relationship - really - I can't say enough positive about it. Brett and Eric and the guys are supremely cooperative. We are bringing things together locally... but... it's well known that this isn't always the case at the national level (or wholly at the owners level, for that matter). I hope this doesn't come across as sour grapes - not meant that way in any fashion - but BMWCCA is NOT a national Mini Club.
Local chapter here is glad to have me. I do more events with them than the local MINI club hell, the local MINI club can't put together one drive a year. Nobody at BMWCCA has a problem with the MINI, it's a national club with national events, DE's, club drives, club socal events, national doscounts and a pretty good monthly mag. The guy that writes the MINI articles every month is a member here. I just don't see any point in trying to reinvent the wheel.
"but BMWCCA is NOT a national Mini Club" Sorry to disagree but it is. The state I'm in my car is registered as a BMW not a MINI.
OK, OK, you may have me on a technicality! :lol: My point is more that BMWCCA is a BMW Club where Minis are allowed ("tolerated" in some cases, "welcomed" in others), but it is not a Mini club. It doesn't have Mini-only events, and doesn't have the owner's community that Mini generally enjoys (yes, that's a generality). BMWCCA is great for what it is. It's also restrictive, big brother-ish, and limits the flexibility, finances, and creativity of the local chapters. As such, though, there are the benefits of a larger Club: track time and instructors, wheel-to-wheel racing (most local Clubs can't afford the type of insurance to do that), a mag, national recognition, etc. etc. It's all good, but I stand by what I said. It's a BMW Club. The argument that Minis are BMW's is a separate discussion with a bunch of arms and legs, and there are a number of threads and posts on That Other Forum to attest to that.
Here in Texas mine is registered as a MINI. If the BMW CCA was so happy to embrace us MINI owners we'd see more love from places like Roundel. 8 model years in and there is no R Code Chart. Don't tell me it's from lack of space. The page that always has the E Code Chart has plenty of white space. I wrote to the editor over a year ago about that too. The June issue has one MINI for sale and that is from a dealer. I counted no more than 5 ads in the entire issue that mentioned MINI. The kicker is the rewards program. You can get anywhere from $500 - $1500 back from BMW when purchasing a BMW after a year of membership. Not offered for MINI. Or how about on the same page as the E Dodes. There are listings on how to contact BMW USA, nothing on how to contact MINI USA. There may be articles but it seems the details as noted above are left out.
Generally MINI owners and BMW owners are somewhat different people. I've always found that a lot of BMW owners seem to look down on my car but the people that are most understanding of the whole idea of a MINI are the water cooled VW people. Since MINIs are few and far between here in southern IL (and weren't so common in Augusta, GA either) I wound up befriending the local VW and Audi enthusiasts more than anything. I don't really care that BMWCCA isn't giving all that much space to us, they've got 50+years of BMWs backing them and the MINI is just a very different car. I wouldn't mind MINI USA offering some of the BMWCCA perks like Nate mentioned through its owners lounge (I haven't been there since '06 though) it could satisfy the national benefits we like, while still retaining the local independence as well. Great point and I strongly agree. Whether it's a club, forum, group, whatever, it's made up of the people and the people define what it is and what it does. A national club would only be a name if the people that make it up don't do anything differently under that name. We could just as easily declare a National MINI Club and state that all the local clubs that currently exist are branches of it and nobody would be the wiser. If the people then used this National club to communicate and make better plans then it's a great thing, if all they do is add bureaucracy and collect revenue then it's not going to be a positive entity.
You've probably already noticed, but I see in his Publisher's Column in the Jun-Jul issue of MC2 he's openly advocating for this. In fact, it leaves the impression that they're close to having a non-profit formed to support its establishment. Of course, as has been stated, the devil is in the details. It will have to be managed more efficiently and predictably than the periodical has been of late for the idea to catch on and be successful, IMHO.
I sent an email to Barry about the National Mini club and he said he would keep me in his list of interested people. I got the impression that he is not as close to starting a national club as his article implied. I am currently involved with an informal local club that communicates/plans through email. A national MINI club might be a way to help similar informal clubs become more formal clubs with more events and larger participation.
just my two cents, don't need it. Isn't this site already providing 95% of the above mention needs anyway? Sure, having some group discounts or group insurance for Autocrossing would be nice. But a actually National Club sounds like another word for government beaurocracy. Isn't that what we were trying to get away from and why Nathan created this site?
Does anybody know what the perspective of MINIUSA is? It seems like the BMWCCA is pretty cozy with BMWUSA and vice versa. Would the same relationship exist between a national club and the MINIUSA people? Has there been any indication of a willingness to give those giant discounts like the ones afforded by BMWCCA membership? And is there any sort of high-level MINI club overseas that might have set a precedent? I'm curious. Also, another point on the BMW/MINI comparison: when I read Roundel, there's always a bunch of people talking about how they've owned multiple BMWs, how they pine for the days of the 2002, and generally how they're drinking the kool aid. I'm 26, and every single 2002 is older than I am. I'm concerned that MINI just hasn't been around long enough to inspire that sort of slavish obsession with a car brand that generates enough enthusiasm to commit the hours and hours of time it would take to run a national club. I mean, sure, I'm pretty crazy about my MINI and I know there's a lot of devotion on this forum and elsewhere, but at this point, do we have the staying power that would encourage the national brand to offer incentives like the BMWCCA discount? One answer and counterpoint to many of my questions is the wild success of the various local clubs, but I wonder if that's not because the local clubs are just the right size for the MINI following. I think a national club simply wouldn't have the support and the number of people to sustain it... yet. In a few years? Maybe? Are there other national clubs for other brands of similar size, like maybe Miatas or GTIs, that would be better to compare to?
One of the features this site has is a Clubs listing. The beauty of it is that a club can list themselves and request a forum, calendar and classifieds. I'm also running an experiment with one club right now that has a private area only seen by members of that particular club. The beauty in this is that a club doesn't need to worry about creating their own web presence. I do have to wonder is Barry is pushing this concept in order for MC2 to become the Club publication in the MINI realm.
To go a little deeper on this... BMW CCA has not always had a cozy relationship with BMW NA. Also, clubs with a strong national presence, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Mustang, Corvette and others have been around for some time and were formed long before the interwebz were a gleam in Al Gore's eye. Other clubs such as Miata, S2000 and others like that have mostly a web presence on a national level with lots of local "chapters" that govern themselves. Much like the same model we see with MINI now. What it does take is a site with vision and presence to draw all these groups even if it just for a listing of contact info. M/A is trying to do that since the Clubs ball was for the most part dropped at another location.
I don't think MINI USA is too down for a national level club. They do a few things here and there to facilitate dealers having local events and run the MINI Takes the States every other year but beyond that I just don't think they have the manpower and budget to be doing too much more. This is true but then we've had Classic Minis in this country since the beginning, before the BMW 2002 was even a sketch on paper, so the history and longevity of ownership can be there, I just don't know that the spirit of the MINI facilitates national organization, kinda like you mentioned in the last paragraph of your post.
I am up in the air with this one. First of all I do at least 6 or more National or major events a year. I almost missed the MinisOnTop because I usually don't go to other clubs post. There are good points and some not so good as well. It is definitely worth the thought process!
I know this thread is almost three years old but there I was standing around in the Detroit Tuned / Todds Mods tent at MOTD. There on the table was the latest issue of MC2 that Barry (the MC2 one, not the Snooter one) was giving away from his MOTD tent. Since I like to keep up to date with what everyone has to say I read his column. Loo and behold this very subject is back again. This got me thinking, is the idea of a National Club for MINI just the ramblings of one man that is trying to push more magazines or is there really merit to the idea? I read through this thread again and thought we covered the topic pretty well. That was three years ago. Has the landscape changed to the point where a national club would be more acceptable? For those of you that just attended MOTD, what could a national club have done to make the event even better than the way it was executed and run by Snooter and few handful's of volunteers? I don't really see the need for a national body to oversee or help guide the local entities for the most part. Where I think it could help is if a club in an area is weak and about to disband. A National entity could possibly help keep such a club going, possibly. Please share your thoughts on this as MC2 has obviously not given up on the idea and it may effect us in someway if MC2 ever does get its bearing and get a national afloat.
A National MINI club as I see it would be nothing but trouble, too many different personalities just as many different types of MINI's. Now with the MINI's that's a great thing with personalities not very good at all. Barry and staff did a fantastic job this year and adding a National club to the mix would only bring it down. IMHO. Gotta leave politics out of the mix.
No national club for me. I enjoy the MINI crowd because it's laid back, no politics, no egos, just a bunch of different personalities enjoying their cars and each other. I believe that injecting a national club into MOTD would take the grass roots fabric from the event.
I agree completely with you and Mr Jim. I think that would destroy MOTD as we know and love it. Snooter for president might work though. Jim