Engine Drivetrain 2nd Gen S Learn me about Water/Meth Injection

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by grodenglaive, May 15, 2012.

  1. grodenglaive

    grodenglaive New Member

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    So... does any one out there have it? I have many questions!:beer
    1. What kind of HP gains do you see? I read somewhere that it doesn't do much without a tune and I assume that means you also need to get chipped.
    2. Will it prevent or cure carbon build up?
    3. How often do you have to fill the reservoir - every time you fill the gas tank, or more often than that?
    4. Any downside to it, harm to engine, what happens if you run out of methanol while driving?

    cheers
     
  2. Jason Montague

    Jason Montague New Member
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    :cornut: BUMP!!!!! One of the Power Mod Gear Heads will probably be along shortly.:Thumbsup:

    Jason
     
  3. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    I haven't done it on an R56, so I'm not going to say a lot.

    You have to decide what your objectives are for the car overall... then determine where W/M fits into that.

    In my case, I was going for cooling primarily, with minimal impact on octane, and ability to run with or without meth with no danger to the car, and no need to tune specifically for meth. That meant I could buy a much less sophisticated system, but it also significantly limits my upside. In my case, it DOES keep things clean (but I don't have DI), and it helps the retain power in hot weather and hard driving (it doesn't "add" power in my case). In my case, it doesn't take a lot of juice. I refill my small tank (actually the headlight washer tank) once about every 3-4 gas tanks for normal driving, or every 1-2 gas tanks for hard driving, or every couple of sessions on the track...

    At the other end of the spectrum, the sky's the limit. I'll let others chime in on that.
     
  4. grodenglaive

    grodenglaive New Member

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    Thanks Blimey, that helps a lot. It uses less M/W than I was expecting. I definitely want it for keeping the valves clean, but would want the ability to add power later.
    I'd also like to hear what you can safely achieve with a tune:)
     
  5. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    The issue I see in tying a tune to Meth/Water injection is that if you run out of Meth during a run you can fry things since the tune is tied to that extra bit that is not there now. Just my 0.02 cents on that matter.
     
  6. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    Generally true.

    So either you (a) have to design the entire "package" around that issue (failsafes, perhaps multiple tune maps with/without meth, etc.) or (b) you stay very much on the "safe" end of what's possible, and you baby the car if you have no meth...

    Which, IMHO, is why I prefer to simplify it to three options:
    1) don't do W/M
    2) do a TINY amount of meth ONLY for cooling (plus the little bit of fuel/octane you get as a side effect (what I do)
    3) go ALL OUT with a full integrated engine and tuning package that include meth, failsafes, etc. as part of the whole
     
  7. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
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    I plan on getting an Aquamist HFS-4 Methanol injection system.

    From what I've read, the methanol/water mix in the tank lasts for months. Just check the level as you'd check the oil, if you run out of mix, you are just being lazy.

    With an Accessport, you can load two maps, one like the standard OEM map, and one performance map, then use the sport button to switch between them. You could turn off the meth/water injection whenever you want.

    Here are some great links for more information.

    R56 MINI Cooper Methanol Injection

    Howerton Engineering, LLC – MINI

    waterinjection.info - Powered by vBulletin

    Dave
     
  8. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    Eventually I want to do a water/meth hookup, planning on using a 50/50 mix of meth/water--that mix isn't flammable, doesn't need a tune, and should work wonders for cooling. I'd like to go 100% meth, but I don't want to deal with any potential headaches that can come along with it.

    Hmmm....Headlight resevoir...Might have to think about that, not sure if it would be large enough for a 50/50 mix, but it sure would be nice to use that instead of a stand alone tank.
     
  9. Thumper460

    Thumper460 Active Member

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    Water meth should be just an add on for ping and carbon build up. there is NO NEED to 'chip' or remap for w/m that is the beauty of the stuff.
    Also you dont need the best on these systems.. they all work great for the DD and running in the mountains. Here in Fl where it gets HOT, we would see more benefits than you in Canada where it is cooler...

    It is a great feature... been running mine since 06 !! Pulled an add'l 8 whp from the system with the w/m allowing the ecu to run more ign timing under a load..

    Just saying...........................

    Thumper
     
  10. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    Thumper, what mix are you using? 50/50?
     
  11. Thumper460

    Thumper460 Active Member

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    tried all and ended with the 50/50 mix..

    Thumper
     
  12. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
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    I've heard that you can use the cheap windshield washer fluid, because it's a meth/water mix, Is that true?

    You could use the same reservoir for your squirters and your meth injection, in that case.

    Dave
     
  13. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    No, you don't want to use windshield wiper fluid--it'll crystallize. It's ok if you're spraying the IC from the outside, but if it's internal injection, you want something more pure.
     
  14. Thumper460

    Thumper460 Active Member

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    I have used the -30 degree washer fluid when I was on the Dragon and ran out of my own.. worked fine

    Just saying.............................

    Thumper
     
  15. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    #15 cct1, May 15, 2012
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
    I wouldn't do that long term. Put some on some metal, let it dry, then see if you still want that in your engine...
     
  16. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    +1 on the washer fluid....key word being washer. It has detergents in it.
     
  17. hbSean

    hbSean New Member

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    I wouldn't long term..
     
  18. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    There's actually very different stuff sold as washer fluid... and there are sites that have actually done analysis on brands. Some is NOTHING but water, methanol, and color. Some has detergents. Some has glycerin, etc.

    As long as you identify stuff as pure water/meth (plus color) it's OK... I ran A LOT of it for A LONG time with no issues.

    That said, I run between 70-80% meth now. I've tried everything from pure water to pure meth, and in my setup, this provides the most oooomf.

    I haven't burned up yet. :)

    But that's why folks test... different results.
     
  19. grodenglaive

    grodenglaive New Member

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    great info here, thanks everyone
     
  20. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    I have been running the Howerton Engineering kit for 4 years now and it's great at getting rid of carbon even without having a custom tune to run meth. It will not hurt your car to run Meth without a tune. I ran my car without the tune for over a year without any issues on 100% VP M1 Meth. I used to fill my Meth tank every 2 weeks before I was tuned for it and I ran a small jet. (.004)

    Now I have been dialed in (RMW tuned) to run Meth and I am running a .008 jet now and I filling the tank twice as much. :D Some people drive by wire, I drive by smile.

    When you are tuned for meth you get to take advantage of the higher octane of methenol and just not it's cleaning and cooling benefits. You will gain some HP but it all depends on the other motor mods you have done to your car. The cooling fuel part is what I care about most, yeah right its the extra HP. Ask any M3 owner in my area, yeah they hate me. :biggrin5:

    Since I am tuned to run 100% meth now I really cannot run my car without it and I dont think I would want too, it is that much fun. I also only run Shell or Sunoco 93 octane in my car and I fill my tank (less than a gal.) once a week under normal driving. I fill it once a day when I am at the Dragon. At the Dragon I also run Sunoco race fuel (100 octane) at $7.70 a gallon.

    I play hard and run my car hard that's why I built it. I have never had any piston, ring, motor seals, or any other motor problems related to the Meth kit and I have been running 100% Meth for about 4 years now. Now if only the rest of the OEM MINI parts (Belt tensioners) would last the long without failing. Thank God for Chads Detroit Tuned tensioner stop, don't run hard without one.
    :wink:

    Ok enough rambling here is the kit I have. HOWERTON ENGINEERING for the WIN!

    Howerton Engineering, LLC – MINI
     

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