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Discussion in 'Car Builds, Projects, Idea's Experiments' started by Precision Engineering, May 18, 2018.
But the air needs to come from a cool source not in the engine bay.
Exactly ! That's why I designed a heatshield that blocks air from around the engine bay. and most important the radiator. I uploaded it in a previous post but I will attach more photos here so you can see it.
In another forum they asked me why I tend to upload only designs etc and no the actual product ! I wanted to write my answer to that here as well.
Its true thats there is a huge delay ... the reason is that i had a problem with one of my moulds resulting in 4 destroyed charge pipes... imagine my state when i realised it ! Time and money all went down the drain. But ... I redesigned, reproduced the moulds and eveything seems good so far !! Yes a bit more waiting but that's part of product development. And dont forget this is a one man show
In the next few days I will finish all the detailed designs and the whole assembly, make a final explanation giving as much information as possible and then.... just the final product
Interesting- what was the issue that caused the damaged to the charge pipe? Also, good to know you stand behind the solution. I know it’s challenging when you a one man show... fully get that challenge.
I did a .. tolerance mistake !!
The good news is that I am closer than ever to finish it now. I have a ready charge pipe, Monday its clear coat day !
Also a fiberglass prototype heat shield is ready (photo below). It is in a very raw form now, just to test that fits as I want. Next step is a nice carbon fiber one.
And some foots from the whole assembly as I promised, you can see all the parts needed for the kit.
I hope you like it !!
Nice, can't wait to see the final product. Good stuff.
Would be great if you had a working prototype to show off at the Dragon at MOTD May 1st- May 5th 2019.
Lots or R53 enthusiasts every year and by far the largest east coast R53 performance gathering.
I agree it would be nice, maybe next year who knows ? Never been to America, I would like to come there.
Update time !!
I installed a prototype heatshield, from glass fiber, a carbon fiber bracket (with a core material for extra stiffness) for the charge pipe and the stainless steel brackets for the heatshield (only 1 can be seen in the fotos)
The carbon fiber bracket it is used to support the charge pipe assembly and uses the OEM mounting points on the gearbox. It is 4mm thick and so stiff that makes the whole assembly very rigid. Couldn't be happier with how it works. I also have the same bracket in stainless steel but..... i prefer the carbon fiber one
Carbon fiber bracket:
Carbon fiber bracket on. Excuse the ugly bolt (It will be changed for an allen head in black colour to match the rest) , zip tie (proper hose clip on it's way), blue silicone hose (I will order black )and the dust (car was seating for more than 1 month in a very dusty environment) !!
Glass fiber prototype heatshield. The prototype is 3mm thick whereas the carbon fiber final version it would be 1.5mm . Below you can see the heatshield on the throttle body.
And the heatshied on the car. I uploaded many photos so you can see the fitment.
The heatshield is supported from two stainless steel brackets attached to the vehicle chassis and not on the charge pipe. That way the charge pipe-air filter assembly can move separate from the heatshield. Below you can see the one bracket (I didn't take foto of the second one) using an existing thread that was on the chassis.
So happy seen the kit in that stage. It took me almost two years (including the design, testing , failing) so I can't describe how I felt yesterday when I fitted the heatshield took a step back and just stayed there watching the whole assembly on the car.
Do you like it so far ? I sense that next updates will be even better
That is looking great! Very nice fitment. Love the carbon fiber.. that always looks good.
Update time !!
I still consider it prototype so lets call it pre-production model You will see I painted black the outlet (inlet of Supercharger) and then faded a bit as the finish wasn't so nice there and I wanted it to finish it and do some more testing ! So don't be so harsh on about the finish
Thanks to a friend of mine that has a stock intake and charge pipe in his car, we will to some dyno pulls and logging before and after . Additionally I will upload some photos from the installation as his car is way cooler than mine It might take a bit of time to do all of that as Easter approaches and also different working hours for both of us.
By using his car and not mine I can have a more objective opinion-comments about the charge pipe as he uses it daily. Plus There I will have two charge pipes being used in nearly daily bases. More kilometers and feedback.
Lets see so far the steps:
Countless design (CAD modelling) hours and air flow (CFD) simulations, 8 3D printed prototypes (3 in the picture), 2 engine 3D scans and 2 pre-production carbon fiber models. (I haven't include the 3d models and prototypes of the heatshield... )
Below in the photo you can see side by side the OEM ,some printed models and the latest carbon fiber charge pipe so not only you can compare stock and new design but also how from version to version the design changes a bit (these small changes are crucial, for example the 3rd printed model compare to the 2nd has a 3 degrees change in the z axis just to ensure more clearance around the throttle body).
If you check in the bottom of the picture I also put a logo ! ok... I had a graphic designer to do it as I wanted to see many different styles
What do you think guys? I hope you like it so far.
Have a nice day or night (here is 9.30 am)
This looks very nice! A very professional looking solution. Looking forward to seeing it installed and the results of the dyno runs. I also like the new logo... good stuff.
I can't imagine the number of hours and test cycles you have done to complete this.
Looks great! This should be a good Mod.
Congratulations on your professionalism and dedication to making a great looking product.
Thank all of you !
Update : not the best one though .....
A friend of mine was kind enough to give me his car for the back to back test. I also wanted his comments on the way the car feels with the new charge pipe.
1st Measurement (OEM setup):
Fuel: 100 RON
Temperature: 17 degrees Celsius
Gear used: 5th
The car was equipped with : Gp intercooler, 550 cc injectors, Bytetronik tune, high flow cat, exhaust, mynes v2 headers, detroid bypass, 16% sc pulley, stock charge pipe and intake.
And the number was ..... 163 at the wheels.
Temperature: 21 degrees Celsius (by the end of the dyno section temp climb at 24 )
Gear used 5th.
Power: 174 at the wheels (Am I happy ? No …. See why below….)
The car was equipped with : gp intercooler, 550 cc injectors, bytetronik tune, high flow cat, exhaust, mynes v2 headers, detroid bypass, 16% sc pulley, carbon fiber charge pipe and fiberglass heatshield.
I did 3 pulls each time. 3 with OEM setup and 3 with the new charge pipe. Unfortunately when measuring the carbon charge pipe the temperature was 21 (instead of 17) and by the end of the 3rd dyno section the temperature was 24 degrees Celsius outside. Car felt unwilling to rev in the first pull, second pull a bit better, third again a bit better…. Ok that was weird, I didn’t like it…. With this setup the car has done nearly 500km, maybe it needs some adaptation time ? I don't know.
Below you can see the graphs and.... my problem....
I became sad and upset initially…. The number peaks only at the rev limit, something completely unacceptable for me . I don’t chase numbers …. But the overall behavior. AND THIS THE WEIRD part …. The car feels amazing with the pipe !! It has torque from down low all the way to the rev limit, it pulls hard with aircon on and 42 degrees Celsius outside temperature. My friend couldn’t believe it , he felt the same, he told me “especially in the lower rev range there is a big difference, I like it way more now “!!!
The technician in the dyno, before checking the graphs he said to me “ it feels so much smoother and eager to pull” !!!! AWWWWW I will go crazy !!!
I did log the car during the dyno pulls and the logs say something completely different…. I think at least ...
IAT’s are down !! with 4 degrees Celsius more and the car heat-shocked in the first run.
Maximum IAT’s are down. Average IAT’s are down….
PSI values are up and the average psi values…
Air mass is up
So that's my situation now.. My friend wants to keep the pipe because .... the car feels better Me... I believe the car needs a re-tune... something is weird, or it needs more time, as in every pull it was better and better. Maybe I will do some pulls next week just to see. I am also planning to make a carbon fiber reinforced 3dprinted version, as changes will be faster (no need to wait for the carbon fiber moulds etc) in order to change the charge pipe outlet as I feel that can change the overall outcome .
Today after the dyno I reached my limit, thinking all the time and money that I spent. But now I feel better and I will try to figure the problem.
What do you think ? Ideas, comments and help are more than welcome !
Have an amazing night or day !
I was thinking.... what about the fuel... more boost, lower iats and more volume but same amount of fuel. Its not just an intake... I will install a afr gauge and retune and then try again.
What do you think ?
I think I would leave the pipe on and try to do some pulls when the temperature close to 17 and the car has not already done pulls. I really don't know about how adversely the temps effect a car but in avaition it does make a difference
You have a point, temperatures can change the outcome. 17 degrees these days is a bit hard... from now on it will be hotter and hotter (today 24...) . I am very happy with the IATs results, even with 4 degrees difference they were lower. That means the heatshield does it's job well. This is another reason why I do not mind so much about temperature right now. Checking again the data I can't get over my head that the car might need more fuel. The ECU is tuned for a complete different scenario. But all these are just speculations, we will see hopefully soon if a retune can change the outcome.
Do a pull on the car in hot temps with the stock set up.
Weather forecast says next week there might be some colder days, so I can try again.
In the meanwhile I am printing a carbon fiber reinforced nylon version. It would be fully fictional, as that material can withstand pressure, fuel, oil and heat ! I am very excited to see how it will work !