Suspension Brakes 1st Gen Lower priced coilovers that don't suck and have good travel

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by andyroo, Nov 5, 2009.

  1. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    #1 andyroo, Nov 5, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
    Sorry for the long thread title. Hoped to get some discussion going as it's just past 5 and work + the boards are slow. :)

    I'm sort of contemplating going with a lower priced coilover rather than my stock spring + koni yellow plans. Daily driver, possible auto-x and track days in the future, but nothing hardcore. I could have fun at the track with stock suspension to be clear.

    Three options I'm looking at are:

    Koni Coilovers
    Eibach Pro Street
    KW V1

    I generally like Koni and KW, and it seems like the Eibach's use KW inserts. So I think the valving will be pretty good on all 3. The adjustability of the Konis is a small plus, but not a big one to me personally. The other 2 do not have adjustable damping.

    With the Mini, i'm most concerned about the lack of suspension travel. I want more. I've heard from TSW (i think) that the KW's add about 1.4 inches of bump, which would be AWESOME. Hopefully the Eibach's would do the same, if they use the same inserts. I will likely lower the car a half inch at most since i like travel and i'm not crazy about the slammed look.

    I will not use the chinese or japenese coilovers (BC, tein, jic/cross, k sport, etc). Sorry, I think those dampers suck and I won't touch them. Not enough travel, crappy valving, and crappy spring quality. I have driven and I've rode on them.

    Also, I'd like linear springs around 5k front and rear or maybe 6k. I realize the coilovers I listed come with their own progressive springs. I'll just get some Swift or Hyperco coilover springs myself and i think the valving could support the 5k springs at least easily. 5k is 280 lbs/in. I don't think I'd run into rubbing issues if i size the springs right since i'm not running low. I may need to use Swifts since they have a shorter closed block height.

    Anyone have any feedback on these 3 options?

    Do the Eibachs use the same body as the KW's, giving me 1.4 inches more bump? They're a bit cheaper than the KW's so it may be what i get.


    UPDATE: Current plan is to go with the Eibach Pro Street coilovers and add my own Swift or Eibach 5k linear springs front and rear. Spring length to be determined when i get the coilovers. Hopefully start everything this spring.


    - Andrew
     
  2. quikmni

    quikmni Moderator

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    Since you only want a small drop in ride height, it seems like you would be better off with stiffer (and shorter) springs and adjustable shocks, such as Koni yellows. It would be at least $300 cheaper than coilovers such as KW V1. You could use the $300 for other suspension parts such as camber plates or sway bar.
     
  3. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    Yes, but i think i'd end up with substantially more bump travel at that ride height with the coilovers.

    - Andrew
     
  4. Dinan604

    Dinan604 New Member

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    Changing your progressive springs to linear springs while on the same valved shocks will cause some negative handling characteristics. The Koni's and generally any shock first mated to progressive springs, have lots of low-speed rebound built into them and less bump. So they control roll very well while still using soft progressive springs, which is why the are so popular with the stock class Auto-X crowd. As soon as you switch to a linear spring, your going to feel a difference that you might not want...it's not going to ride very well.

    You could look at TSW springs mated to Koni Yellows...it would be to your benefit to also get them shock dynoed and valved properly. Dyno results have noted that even if you buy Konis in the same batch, they will be off on all four to a degree.
     
  5. Rally

    Rally New Member
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    Yah, Konis (yellow or fsd) have the same exact amount of travel as stock (not much). He's looking to increase travel...so those aren't going to help much (especially if you team them with lowering springs).

    KW's have a great amount of travel in comparison...though I'm not sure about the answer to your eibach question. I remember someone mentioning that they source their body's from KW, but I don't think they used the same specs.

    Keep in mind that KW V1's all the way up are still substantially lower than stock. Even if you set it at it's highest setting, you're gonna get more than the .5" drop you mentioned.
     
  6. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    #6 andyroo, Nov 5, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
    I've switched KW V3 with progressive rear to a linear rear and it was OKAY....not ideal but it was a much stiffer rear too. I don't plan on making as big of a jump here.

    I might actually be able to get the shock dynos for the Eibach coilovers....that would clear it up nicely.

    - Andrwe
     
  7. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    Is this a function of the shock body, or maybe the length of the progressive springs used?

    If i ran my own linear spring in a slightly longer rate, it may work out nicely. But you're also not supposed to run a coilover much higher than it's designed for....not supposed to "top them out." i've never had to worry about that before. :lol:

    - Andrew
     
  8. Rally

    Rally New Member
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    I'm not sure. I just know my buddy has his "all the way up" for winter and it's still more than half an inch lower than stock. It's not slammed by any means...I was just giving you a heads up that it's still pretty low.

    My guess is that it's the body, but I've never really investigated the springs. The bodies are a bit shorter than stock AND mounted lower than stock. They sit deeper down into the hub than stock with more of the body protruding down under the hub. This allows them to have good travel when lowered, but it also leaves you kinda low at the highest setting.
     
  9. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    That seems mostly about valving and spring rates

    Seems to me the bodies of most struts/coil overs could be a bit longer at the bottom to gain some stroke, but no one has done this. (REally, with stock ride heigth, one could even INCREASE travel.....) Ryan made his 1" drop spindles so I know that there is room there.

    Anyway, one way to go would be to see what you can buy used, and go with it. Maybe get better quality product at a lower price. Win win?

    Matt
     
  10. Rally

    Rally New Member
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    Like I said, the KW's (and VMaxx's) are both longer on the bottom. Neither of them could be much longer down there or they would contact and eventually rip the CV boots (I know this from experience experimenting with my custom drop struts...oops:eek:). Ryan's drop spindle was only about an eighth inch or so more and I'd imagine that's about as close as you can get to the cv boots.
     
  11. AMG-RX7

    AMG-RX7 New Member

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    FWIW, I run the equivalent of these coilovers on my RX7. Off the shelf Konis modified by Ground Control for an adjustable lower spring perch, combined with Eibach linear race springs and upper strut mounts.

    Out Motoring MINI Cooper Coilover Suspension

    I've had many years of great service from these with the ability to swap springs easily and inexpensively. It retains stock suspension travel and strut body lengths so it might not be exactly what you want but its a reliable option that has future possibilities nonetheless. After years of faithful service, I recently had the Konis rebuilt and revalved to my spring rates by Tri Point Engineering aka Pro Parts.
     
  12. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    I think this is something i just have to try....if it doesn't work out I can just sell them.

    Hopefully this spring. I'll keep everyone updated.

    - Andrew
     
  13. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    and i confirmed that the non-adjustable Eibach coilovers are indeed made by KW. the adjustable 1 and 2 way for R56 (the Multipro R1 or R2) are not though.

    gonna try and get a shock dyno from them.

    - andrew
     
  14. AMG-RX7

    AMG-RX7 New Member

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    Probably the best way. I've tried 4 sets of springs, 2 sets of coilovers and 3 sets of shocks on my RX7. Its been fun. Kinda...
     
  15. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    Dialing in a suspension

    is a never ending series of black magic tricks and hope!

    Matt
     
  16. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    #17 andyroo, Dec 2, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
    ^ aint that the truth!


    UPDATE: Current plan is to go with the Eibach Pro Street coilovers and add my own Swift or Eibach 5k linear springs front and rear. Spring length to be determined when i get the coilovers. Hopefully start everything this spring when i'm not broke. i still need wheels.

    Should be well under 1500 bucks (retail) spent when it's all said and done if i go with Eibach springs. But i might get Swifts. :)


    - andrew
     
  17. CHKMINI

    CHKMINI Club Coordinator
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    You may want to look at Outmotoring. Their coilovers use Koni yellows and are built to whatever spring rate you desire by TrueChoice, the guys from the old TrueSports Indy Car team. I ran them on my R53 with good success.
     
  18. Rally

    Rally New Member
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    They don't have much more travel unfortunately. At least not compared to KW/Vmaxx.
     
  19. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    ^ that's what i was concerned with for them....they do look very good though.

    - drew
     

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