Engine Drivetrain 1st Gen Cooper S LSD or not?

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by UKXPAT, Nov 16, 2010.

Tags:
  1. UKXPAT

    UKXPAT New Member

    Nov 12, 2009
    143
    0
    0
    Crystal Lake, IL
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    This is not a question about a recommendation about different manufacturers of LSD units, already done that, but more whether it's worth having one at all. I am about to replace the clutch and flywheel, and I am struggling over the decision on fitting an LSD at the same time. I understand the overall benefits of an LSD, but really wonder if my own usage warrants the significant additional expense.

    I have an 04MCS with 45K miles on it. It's my daily driver. Apart from a couple of trips over to the West coast, my general trips are short and local. I have driven on a track once in the 6 years of ownership. While I certainly drive 'quickly' around the local roads, and really enjoy 'throwing' it around, I still really wonder if I will really get the full benefit of the LSD.

    Since February I have been running 250 WHP.

    Help!
     
  2. quikmni

    quikmni Moderator

    Jun 6, 2009
    775
    173
    43
    Aerospace Engineer
    Orcutt, CA
    Ratings:
    +173 / 0 / -0
    With your horsepower, I think LSD would be a benefit.

    Is it worth the cost, that probably depends on the cost of the LSD that you install.
    One cheaper option would be to buy a used OEM LSD from the marketplace. I know there are better LSDs but that inexpensive route might meet your benefit vs. cost trade-off analysis. However, if I was doing the clutch I would install an expensive/good LSD.

    I had a 03 MCS and I wanted LSD but never installed it because of the installation cost. I knew if I ever replaced the clutch that I would install a LSD at that time. I totalled that MCS before a clutch replacement was ever needed. Now I have a 06 MCS with LSD and I am so glad I have the LSD. The car is my daily driver, I have done 2 Auto-Xs, and no track days yet. I had done 3 track days in my previous 03 MCS and I wish I had a LSD. I drive aggressive in the street/canyons and I notice the traction improvement with the LSD. In my 03 without LSD I would always drive in the street with the DSC Off because without the LSD I would lose traction so often and thus cut the power that it was better to drive with DSC off. In my 06 with LSD I can drive with the DSC On because I get so much better traction that the DSC is not so obtrusive.
     
  3. FredR53

    FredR53 New Member

    Oct 8, 2010
    21
    0
    0
    crappy
    SA, TX
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I personally think that the LSD is one of the best upgrades period. The thing with every car not just Minis is that the more/better traction you get the better. Now with 250hp I would say it is just about a must. I have just a CAI and even before that I was losing traction with my MCS just trying to pull out into the street by my neighborhood. If it was busy I generally need to get on it a little more because I hate slowing down traffic. If DSC was on it would cut power and I would end up doing what I hate. Just my 2 cents though.

    Fred

    Edit: I'm currently shopping for a coil-over set up, it is time for my struts to be replaced. If I wasn't doing that I would be looking at LSDs. Then again, I like to auto-x so I am all about being able to put down the power that I do have.
     
  4. lotsie

    lotsie Club Coordinator

    May 5, 2009
    3,924
    400
    83
    stagehand/part time detailer
    Right here
    Ratings:
    +400 / 0 / -0
    I have driven MINIs with and without LSD(factory). I like not having things pull when I get on it :eek:

    Mark
     
  5. mini_racer

    mini_racer Well-Known Member

    May 4, 2009
    1,046
    55
    48
    Engr Manager
    Austin, TX
    Ratings:
    +55 / 0 / -0
    Get the LSD, with that whp you need it!
     
  6. Way Motor Works

    Way Motor Works New Member

    May 4, 2009
    1,169
    205
    0
    MINI Tuner
    Atlanta
    Ratings:
    +205 / 0 / -0
    Since your gonna have the trans out def. get the LSD, No matter how much power you make it is useless if you can't get it to the ground.

    If you can't justify the LSD now, how do you justify all the mods in your signature?
     
  7. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

    Jun 24, 2009
    5,146
    1,300
    113
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Ratings:
    +1,300 / 0 / -0
    Get the LSD.
     
  8. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

    Jun 12, 2009
    1,317
    154
    63
    Civil Engineer
    Durham, NC
    Ratings:
    +154 / 0 / -0
    If you're running 250 whp, clearly you're concerned about performance. The LSD will benefit all cars and all drivers; the only downside is cost.
     
  9. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
    Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    8,692
    2,467
    113
    Bend, OR USA
    Ratings:
    +2,526 / 0 / -0
    As to the cost........go for the Ford Focus LSD. There was a thread on the "other" site that had to do with getting one and that it is indeed a drop in unit.

    I think the Ford unit was around $600
     
  10. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

    Jun 24, 2009
    5,146
    1,300
    113
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Ratings:
    +1,300 / 0 / -0
    Details, how does it stack up against the others?!
     
  11. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

    May 4, 2009
    252
    54
    28
    Ratings:
    +54 / 0 / -0
    It all depends on the meaning of benefit. Handling is subjective. Everyone has different ideas about what that is. On the same professional race teams, with highly skilled drivers, the drivers set their cars up differently. When I have been able to see track data, one of the things that jump out is the segment time differences. The two drivers will have lap times within tenths of a second, but the drivers will have very different segment times. These differences are the result of what the car is telling that driver, and the drivers may have different ideas about where they want to be fast.
    What do you respond to? What makes you feel in control? Lotsie doesn’t like the feeling. I do. A limited slip will make the car faster because you can get on the power quicker out of the corners. You aren’t racing. Does a little bit of time on the track make any difference?
    Get someone with a LSD to let you drive their car.
     
  12. M^Cubed

    M^Cubed Member

    May 24, 2009
    315
    12
    18
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0
    It is a TORSEN unit - like the OBX and Quaife. Torsen just means Torque Sensing.

    Its downfall is that if there is 0 traction on the non drive wheel, it wont lock up. (such as on ice or snow) where as the clutch type (OS Giken) will ramp up via clutches to gain traction on that wheel.
     
  13. Redbeard

    Redbeard JCW: because fast is fun!
    Supporting Member

    Dec 17, 2009
    1,637
    396
    83
    Glorified spreadsheet jockey.
    Austin, TX
    Ratings:
    +411 / 0 / -0
    I just have the check box (factory installed) unit and the difference is HUGE both at autocrosses and at the track. Mine is stock other than decent rubber and lighter wheels so the torsen style is just fine for me.

    If I was making 250hp to the wheels I'd be dumping the cash for a good clutch type LSD without a second thought.
     
  14. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Sep 29, 2009
    12,549
    7,423
    113
    Owner of a small custom metal fabrication company,
    Columbus, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +7,435 / 0 / -0
    I went to that site. What I found interesting was that it was claimed that the Ford Focus SVT has the same manual transmission as the MINI. I didn't know that.
     
  15. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

    Jun 4, 2009
    18,580
    9,108
    113
    Retired old fart
    Hooterville Ohio USA
    Ratings:
    +9,736 / 1 / -0
    MM- Same as the R53. The R56 is a different box of cogs I believe.

    I have the factory LSD that came with my car. Checking that box & spending $500 was a sweet deal. It's not a Torsen it is a cone type diff. Sort of a clutch type. It works well for me. I know it helps in winter & coming out of turn 13 at Nelson it is a must have.

    Too bad LSD diffs are no longer available from the factory. I think that E-diff would be fine on the street, but for track use it's going to make the brakes yell Uncle!
     

    Attached Files:

  16. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
    Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    8,692
    2,467
    113
    Bend, OR USA
    Ratings:
    +2,526 / 0 / -0

    Here is the thread.....

    MINI COOPER :: North American Motoring - Installing LSD
     
  17. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
    Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    8,692
    2,467
    113
    Bend, OR USA
    Ratings:
    +2,526 / 0 / -0

    This is true if only one wheel is on the ice/snow. If both wheels have the same traction, then it will work as designed.
     
  18. UKXPAT

    UKXPAT New Member

    Nov 12, 2009
    143
    0
    0
    Crystal Lake, IL
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    #18 UKXPAT, Nov 17, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2010
    You make a very good point. Guess the project pot was a little fuller when I had all the work done on the engine!
     
  19. UKXPAT

    UKXPAT New Member

    Nov 12, 2009
    143
    0
    0
    Crystal Lake, IL
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I guess I need to hope the OEM clutch will hold out long enough to fill the pot a little more, so I can do the job properly and fit the LSD!
     
  20. k-huevo

    k-huevo Club Coordinator

    May 6, 2009
    683
    159
    0
    Pipe Creek, Texas
    Ratings:
    +159 / 0 / -0
    With DSC, the drawbacks associated with loss of traction on Torsen type differentials becomes a non issue.
     

Share This Page