1st Gen R50 Cooper Most liked posts in thread: Manual Transmission Fluid

I have some data from Blackstone on MTL, MTF-94, and MTL LT-3
from a couple years ago when I had some oils analyzed.

The MTL had 3118 ppm Zn, the Texaco MTF-94 had 1712 ppm, and
the LT-3 had 1021 ppm. The LT-3 sample probably had some
residual MTL mixed in with it, so there's probably less Zn in
pure LT-3. The viscosity of MTL was about 9.8,
MTF-94 10.2, and the LT-3 with a little MTL was about 7.2.
LT-3's measured viscosity is about 6.1.

I don't have Blackstone data for D6, but it's supposed to have
viscosity of about 6.4. Its label indicated that it's
designed for both auto and manual transmissions fwiw.

Have people had problems with the 7/2004 - 2006 non-LSD
6 speed Getrags and 5-speed Getrags that come
factory filled with BMW MTF-LT-3?

LSD Getrags from that time period were filled with MTF-94
because MINI found that LT-3 + factory LSD caused some
increased noise.

 

If you want to stick with the OEM and your dealer won't sell you small quantities (they get it in large container drums), Outmotoring has it...

https://www.outmotoring.com/mini-cooper/83227533818_mini_cooper_transmission_fluid_oil.html

 

Yes, and Turner has it even by the liter.
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-198480-83222339221-genuine-bmw-part/?gclid=CLfOp-Hhyc4CFUIfhgodfYsDiQ

 

I almost forgot, there's a Blackstone oil report on virgin BMW MTF-LT-3 from BITOG
Viscosity measured at 6.1 and Zn was only 69 ppm.
I searched again to re-find it and here it is:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1643610

 

Good info...
Actually mirrors what's been happening in trucking....
To improve mpg, some be truck trannys and rear differential are now using 5w-30....factory filled....and operators are seeing a HUGE reduction in life....the push...lower fuel burn to increase mpg, and lower co2 numbers.
Makes me wonder if the thinner fluid was to try to get the tiny gain in fleet fuel economy...fractions here and there add up...
Actually I think that is WHY BMW SELLS MINI's...to cancel out the big low mpg cars they sell to make averages look better...

There was an open thread of a guy who used the d6, and noticed it changed color and smelled "brunt" in a few miles....not sure what the age of his car was.

This does remind me of a Honda CRX HF I had....went to change the tranny oil, and found in the book it was "lifetime" filled.b it 5w-30 motor oil was the replacement oil if needed..lol...back in 2003 or so on a 1989 car....ended up using Mobil 1 5w-30 but added extra zinc cause I simply did not trust the lifetime fluid, but also did not believe a regular oil was good enough....but could not helping myself to add a very heavy MTF ... partially due to MPG.... I was routinely getting 50 mpg in that car, and that was great considering I was in the Colorado Rockies going back and forth from Denver to various places, both highway and back roads.

 

Lol... guess I made an even swap then...
Went to a lighter flywheel and a heavier transmission/diff oil.....

 

I've been mulling over this topic for a while.
My vested interest is that I have a 2003 R50 with a Getrag 6-speed conversion
(after a failed Midlands) filled with Redline D6 (shop's choice and recommendation).
I'm a little wary of the low viscosity of the fluid, but I'm really not convinced that
it's a worse choice than the BMW MTF-LT-3 that is called for in a 2005-ish 6-speed Getrag.
The LT-3 has even lower viscosity than the D6 (slightly) and is also not fortified with zinc.
In a daily driver Justa, however, I'm not pushing the limits of this robust transmission much,
and although I have a LSD installed, it's a Quaife, not the factory LSD, and doesn't really need
a thicker fluid to run properly and quietly.

Other thoughts:

Dave mentions the Amsoil Severe Gear fluids, but the 100C viscosities for those are 16, 21, and 26,
which may be great in a track or road warrior MINI, but even the lowest one seems pretty thick for a
daily drive MINI.

Amsoil's site actually has no formal recommendation for a Getrag 5 or 6 speed except stick with LT-3.

Royal purple actually recommends their Max ATF fluid for a Getrag 5 or 6 speed..

I can't find specs on the Eneos GL5 75W90, and they don't have a formal recommendation for MINI, but
I'm guessing this is the appropriate choice. Anybody have info? The Eneos site says "info coming soon".

Fuchs Titan Sintofluid 75W80 with a viscosity of 9.4 looks like a good choice.
Anyone running this?

Redline MTL and Texaco MTF-94 both look like good choices, although I'd like something just
a little thinner with our cold winters (like maybe the Fuchs above).

The person with the possibly burnt D6 fluid had been towing a 1,000 lb trailer with a Justa
with a Getrag 5-speed (maybe not up to the job).

I'm sticking with the D6 for now, but am thinking of sending a sample of the now 2-year old
fluid to Blackstone for analysis and rethink after seeing how it's holding up.

 

Sent in and got back an oil analysis for the D6 at 16,300 miles after installing the remanufactured 6-speed Getrag.
Aluminum and Iron are about 50% higher than the universal averages given by Blackstone, and viscosity is only
5.7 (supposed to be about 6.4 new) at 100C.

Based on this, I'm going to drain and refill with Fuchs Titan Sintofluid 75W80 later this month when I have the time.
Their site indicates it's recommended for R53's with or without LSD, and it's about 10% less viscous than Redline MTL
or Texaco MTF-94, but way higher than D6.

Since I'm well past the initial higher wear period of a new transmission, the refill should be good for quite a while.

The analysis is linked below. Ignore the second and third column and most of the comments, as they refer to another
analysis with a different oil in a different transmission (blend of LT-3 and some leftover MTF-94 in the old Midlands).

 

Changed the D6 to Redline MTL today.

I already had some on hand, and the Fuchs is still on order, and I'm still waiting to hear about some compatibility issues from
technical support at Fuchs and MiniMania since it's a GL-5 spec and I want assurance that
it's ok for yellow metal synchros, etc. Their website implies that it is without stating it outright,
and a few other sources of info indicate that it's ok.

If I have no winter weather issues, I'll just stay with the MTL. If I do, I'll swap to the Fuchs later.

 

Interesting finding:
Since installing the 6-speed Getrag, I've often had a minor chatter on letting out the clutch
just after starting up the car, it goes away after a block or two, and I thought it was just
some minor clutch chatter, but since changing from D6 to MTL, it has gone away completely!
Maybe the thinner D6 and the Quaife don't play well together from a cold start.
Also, MiniMania recommended MTL and wouldn't vouch for Fuchs Titan Sintofluid for this application,
and Fuchs hasn't responded to my inquiry, so it looks like I'll be staying with the MTL.
We've had some 30F mornings and no shifting problems with the thicker MTL.

 

When I have my clutch done this winter I am filling it with the BEST because when I do drive my car I beat the snot out of it.

I have run AMSOIL and had no issues at all.

Motul 823511 Gear FF Competition 75W140 100 Percent Synthetic Ester Based Racing Lubricant for Limited Slip Differential (LSD) - 1 Liter $25.00

 

Wow. That's thick stuff.
https://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/108/original/Gear%20Competition%2075W140_GB.pdf?1290086772
I take it The Mistress doesn't do a lot of winter driving.


BTW, a tip for getting the gear oil level right for those of us that do things curbside.
I usually use ramps for engine or gear oil changes which is great as it puts the drain hole lower,
but it leads to underfilling the transmission in this position. I guess I could put the front on
ramps and the backs on jack stands and try to match the position, but the following approach
is easier and pretty foolproof:

Jack up the front passenger side to a jack stand, remove the fill plug, and fill until just dripping.
Leave the plug out and jack the MINI back down level with something to catch the overflow
(turns out to be just a few ounces), then back up and put the plug back in at the correct torque.

 

I found increased wear metals and a drop in viscosity with D6 as the initial fluid in a
remanufactured 6-speed Getrag after 16,300 miles. Not horrible levels, but about
50% above expected for iron and aluminum, and 10% drop in viscosity.
This is in a Justa (2003 R50) that doesn't see any autocross, track driving, or other abuse.
I changed to MTL last weekend.
I expect to see about 1 mpg or so drop from the change.

 

I only use real maple syrup.

 

That's wise, as I'm certain that artificial maple syrup would cause some problems.:smilewinkgrin:

 

She goes out in the Winter without any problems at all. I do not daily drive my car because I work from home but she does sleep in a warm carpeted garage. :ihih: I wish I did drive everyday because the car is so much fun to drive. :devil:

It may be a "tiny" stiff for a few min but once its warmed up it is no difference at all. Also it is the fluid OS Giken recommends for the Super locker LSD that going in my car along with my new clutch.

 

If that is what the diff maker says it's what it needs. :yesnod: You can use real maple syrup for the clutch slave.

 

Hey Dave, thanks for the info on the oil. I use Redline 75/90 now but that 140 weight appeals to me due to it's always baking hot down here. I'm going to see if they have it in the local speed shop.

 

Hey all,

Now that my Tech and I have managed to replace enough engine parts on my '08 R55-S and it is running pretty smoothly and quietly (for a Mini) I'm noticing that what was making my engine sound like a diesel (really clattery) and which I THOUGHT might be the valves or timing chain, in reality has something to do with the 6-speed manual transmission. Like cristo was saying, there is a specific transmission clatter I get when the clutch is NOT depressed and the transmission is OUT of gear at an idle. In MY case, it seems WORSE once the engine is warmed up, which I think really means the transmission oil is warmed up... and maybe wearing thin?

So I've been trying to follow this discussion and it is sounding like the Redline 75W90-140 oils or the Amsoil Severe Gear 75/90 seem to the be best overall choices you all have been settling on. Does anyone know if it should help with the condition I'm describing above?


I also found an article on the Bavarian Autosport blogsite ( http://blog.bavauto.com/16143/bmw-or-mini-transmission-rattle-in-neutral-how-to-fix/ ) That claims it is a common issue on older, BMW/Mini transmissions with worn gears or bearings that they clatter and that the only way to fix it is to rebuild the whole thing, which of course is very costly. Their solution is to use a MIX of lubricants: part Redline MTL, part Redline 75W90 and part Liqui-Moly MoS2. They say that in the right proportions, this quiets the gears, even as it makes the shifting stiffer, which I'd frankly welcome. My Mini shifts better and more precisely with shorter throws than any other manual I've owned, but it IS a tiny bit sloppy feeling in places. What do you all think about this mixing of liquids?