Most liked posts in thread: MDM vs Curt Hitch

We wanted to chime in and add a bit of resolution to this matter. When we purchased MINIdoMore in June 2011 there was a pending lawsuit regarding between Curt and MINIdo more regarding copyright infringement of some of the Hitches that MINIdoMore had designed and engineered as well as the instructions and images that MINIdoMore generated.

We received, as part of the companies files, a letter from Curts VP of Marketing (name withheld from this post) clearly admitting that their staff had copied the written instructions and images in the MDM instructions for their use and had rectified it immediately once they were called out on it. In another document from the Curt legal council (name withheld from this post) was a statement that denied copying of the physical hitches to the EXTENT which was stated by MDM's legal council in a earlier letter. Please note they did not deny copying our hitches- they only denied that they were 100% copied. Of course there was lots of legalese to support these statements (how else can you bill $600 for a letter?). IN THE SAME LETTER they offered to resolve the matter amicably and offered a financial settlement to Mini Do More to resolve the issue before it went any further. Wow, shocking! Why deny that they copied our hitches 100% and then offer a substantial settlement?

We have decided not to pursue the matter any further and will not take it to our courts system. We consider their admission of guilt and financial settlement to be a rational place to stop.

As a professional in the Product Development industry and having spent many years dealing with Copyright and Patent infringement as it relates to sporting goods I'm well aware of the costs associated with protecting patented products in court. Furthermore there are "design" patents and "utility" Patents - both with varying degrees of protection. Because our hitches were not Patented it would have been a massive uphill battle. Proving a "Patented" product was copied is nearly impossible as a manufacturer/ copycat can change something as simple as the gauge of metal or angle of one corner on a bracket and get away with just about anything. Typically Utility Patents are worth pursuing but Design Patents are not- please google this for more info.

Copyright law, on the other hand is fairly easy to protect and that is where this case had some real meat to it (copyright protection is a way to protect something with very minimal investment and usually relates to print media, art, photography and in some cases products). Because our instructions were copied word for word and images were taken the case had traction and had it gone any further could have been EASILY supported in court.

Again, after considering Curts admission of guilt and our desire to invest our time, money and energy on other more beneficial and enjoyable parts of life we have decided to move on. We will not forget this event, nor will we allow our Brands value to be diminished by uninformed and belligerent online personalities.

We make great hitches and offer MINI Cooper hitch applications that others simply don't. We are a honest company that makes great products and have been supporting the MINI industry since 2002. We hope that as consumers consider the options for which product and which company to support they will consider the facts and experiences of other MINI owners in the community.

 

I am not going to argue with you about anything else, but I do want to clear up one clear mistake that you have in your post. The MiniFini system is a Class III rated hitch, which far exceeds how much you would ever pull with your Mini, as opposed to the CURT which is only a class I. These two systems are not created equally, and I can ensure that you are getting what you pay for when you purchase a MiniFini system. If you only plan to carry a bike rack or other small items a CURT may be all that you need, but the MiniFini system can do much more and can be much more secure for hauling larger trailers and heavier items.

 

This is a few year old thread, things have changed since then.

MDM (MINI DO MORE) is now owned by OutMotoring who is known for their incredible customer service. I doubt it would take 2 weeks to ship now.

To me the reason I would not buy a Curt branded hitch is as follows. Curt purchased the MDM ones and copied them. Curt does nothing to support the MINI community while both Outmotoring and MINI FINI (another source for a hitch) both do support the community.

If the price is only factor then Curt is the one to buy. But if one believes in supporting those that support us and rewarding those that come up with these as opposed to a copy cat company then either the MDM or MINI FINI are the ones to use.

 

I simply chose to do business with those I know and those that support the marque and hobby I have chosen.

Much like I buy my produce from the local place in the local market grown bu local growers when ever possible. I support the infrastructure that supports me.

This is why if I was in the market for a hitch I would pay a few dollars to support MINI FINI or MINI Do More.

That just me and the way I prefer to conduct business. Might cost me a few bucks more upfront but in the long run I feel it is best.

 

Simply put, Curt copied the design. We can all make our own choices based on what ever criteria you feel is needed, but most of us feel that his copying of the Mini-do-more hitch is high on our list.

His copying of the design probably is not, by strict definition, illegal. But it is certainly questionable. As for proof........his hitch came out a long time after the original. Proof enough for me and most others.

And as for pointing fingers, me thinks you defend a bit to much.

 

Black Thirteen, reading your post, it seems you're trying to convince yourself that there is no problem with what you did. Don't try to convince us, who've been around for awhile, and have seen firsthand the crap some vendors will pull at another vendor's expense, that this approach is acceptable.

Ripping off another's design is chickenshit. We all know that. MDM, and now Outmotoring, can't really do anything about it; it would cost much more than it's worth to pursue it. So it's disingenuous at best to base your argument on the fact that nothing been done legally, when we all know nothing ever will, simply due to the expense.

Congratulations. You saved a few dollars. There are more like you out there who value a few bucks over the concept of a community; you're not alone. Fortunately, there are enough folks who DO support legitimate vendors. If there weren't, you'd be screwed--it's the legitimate vendors that develop products for a relatively small MINI market; that extra few bucks or so that most are willing to pay offsets the expense of the R&D that guys like Curt steal. Paying that allows companies that actually add something rather than take something to stay in business, and add more new products. If everyone bought cheap rip-offs, there would be no further product development, or product support. Enough of us have a conscience to realize this, that companies like MDM and Outmotoring provide a valuable service, and supporting companies such as these helps keep the community going--one of the best part of the MINI community how it will fight for vendors that bring something to the table rather than take something off of it tooth and nail.

 

I think we can lay this thread to rest.

Thanks

 

I've never used either, my own thoughts are to go with the Mini Do More based on the fact that Curt purchased and then copied the MDM brand product. Makes me question their ethics. For that reason alone I'd spend a few dollars more.

 

This is slightly off topic and I can't vouch specifically for the MDM products but I can say how much I go out of my way to buy North American (followed but European) whenever possible. I typically expect to spend 50%-150% more than "made in China" but I'm glad to do so. If we don't continue to support our N/A manufacturers and especially those who take some risk to inovate and bring a new product to market we're going to see more and more jobs shipped over to China. My kids say I'm a racist, which is the arguement everybody makes everytime anybody says anything negative against somebody from overseas. I'm sick of the lame comebacks. What really funny is I am Chinese by birth and heritage (Chinese/German) and I'm NOT a racist.

Thanks for letting me vent

 

.50 cal's baby......!

 

Should anyone have any questions or concerns about the MINI Do More hitches feel free to drop me a line. Since purchasing the company last year I think we have made some great changes in the quality of service, ship times and overall product support.

MINI Cooper Trailer Hitch, Clubman Hitch, Convertible Countryman Hitch, Roadster Towing hitch, MINI Cooper Roof Rack, MINI Clubman Bike Ski Rack 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 2008 2009 20010 2011 2012 2013 2014
MINI Cooper Accessories : MINI Cooper Parts : OutMotoring:

 

I recommend CURT Hitches

How do we really know who has the poor business ethics? I have not seen any evidence, just empty accusations.

Just installed my CURT hitch, and it's awesome. Installed without needing to dremel the holes or the receiver from the poor craftsmanship I've read about from rival companies.

Even with the "guilt-trip" from rival companies, I still recommend choosing CURT. There is no solid evidence of anybody "copying" anyone else's design. Just a bunch of internet accusations from people who charge more, while spending a lot of time bad-mouthing their competition on internet message boards.

If CURT is innocent until proven guilty, their lower price, availability, and high quality product (Made in the U.S.A.) are very attractive reasons to choose the better product. I also have more respect for CURT for not participating in the drama of internet babblings.

The CURT mounted up fast, without modifying it, and has the safety chain hooks on the actual hitch, built in, nothing more to buy. It came as a kit with their "EURO-BALL" style tongue/ball.

I was well aware of the alleged accusations prior to making my purchase. I've read claims of these "various CURT employee addresses" stealthily placing discreet orders, only to be foiled by their team of highly motivated detectives.

I find it hard to believe that a well established company, with supreme experience making hitches from fifth-wheels to everything else, for all kinds of vehicles for many years, would be so interested in a small start-up company. CURT has major locations all over this country, and have had the time, funds, and facilities to master the manufacturing processes.

I don't find it hard to believe that a small company would feel threatened by CURT's prowess. Until these alleged criminal accusations are proven, they remain hearsay. It would be wise to keep such matters private, until they are proven as facts. Otherwise, it's usually the guilty party who points the fingers.

All the internet attacks, without evidence, are difficult to accept, as an impartial consumer. I see some motivation to skew one side of the story, which is all I've been privy to. Even some arbitrary orders from addresses near one of CURT's ELEVEN facilities does not PROVE anything.

We consumers have a choice and should not be manipulated/bullied/guilt-tripped by rival companies as I've seen on the internet.

I suppose all the evidence is locked away in a top-secret vault buried 100 miles below the sea.

I call shenanigans.

I know if I had these so-called documents, I would display them on the home page of my website. I would make videos, PROVING theft of intellectual property. That would have made a HUGE difference to me.

Instead of any convincing evidence, all I see are a bunch of negative RUMORS, perpetrated by the competition, while CURT is still selling their hitch, and silently suffering vicious attacks to their reputation.

Do your own research, and make an informed decision. Just don't let people intimidate you into buying an inferior product. These manipulative tactics are an extremely shady way to run a business. Until a court-ruling proves any facts, the beautiful competition of us consumers having choices will only help us, in the end. Competition lowers prices, and evolves product designs. If the only way you can stay in business is by bad-mouthing the competition, and attempting guilt-trip-tactics, you won't earn this consumer's dollar.

 

Okay Black Thirteen, since you had no problem singling out my post among many, I'll be more than glad to reply.

I don't have to be Sir Issac Newton to understand gravity. I didn't have to be on the jury to think O.J. Simpson is guilty. And I don't need the paperwork in front of me to think the shenanigans that went on were on anyones part but CURT. How much of a coincidence is it that one of each of the MDM hitches were sold to the same or very similar addresses? Granted I have 4 different MINIs, but none have a hitch on them. I'd be willing to bet if you drive by those addresses you wouldn't see ONE MINI let alone FOUR!

You're right, CURT hitches are also made in the USA. Unfortunately, that seems to be the business model lately. Take the easy way out. Copy someone elses product. Hell, even auto manufacturers do it. That doesn't make it right. And of course a larger company can make something cheaper than a Mom & Pop business can. Again, that doesn't make it right.

MINI Do More put research and development into building their hitches, They put some of that money back into the MINI community and sponsored events. Out Motoring still does and to a larger extent. I've yet to see even a sticker from CURT at ANY MINI event. So there is no support for the MINI community there.

Look, you can buy any hitch you like. Personally, I'd support a business that supports the group I support. I've seen CURT ads in magazines. I'm sure they could afford to throw a buck or two to Nathan. I bet he'd turn them down though.

And while we're at it, and you called me out by quoting my post, you seem awful interested in trailer hitches. In the 16 days you've been a member all of your posts have been about hitches. I'm thinking many here will find that odd. Hitches aren't usually the first addition people make to a MINI. I re read your post and if you aren't a CURT employee, they should surely hire you as their legal liason or find a spot for you in their sales staff. That post is far and away a more in depth post than that of a casual hitch purchaser to me.

As far as the threats made, you're not making many friends at Motoring Alliance. I will continue to try and persuade people from buying CURT hitches. I've met and talked with the folks at MDM and believe them to be honest people. And just so you don't think I only dislike CURT, I don't shop at Wal Mart, I hate Chrysler products, Not a fan of Pizza Hut. I don't like Goodyear tires. I won't stay at a Motel 8 and I don't like Pepsi.

So, this is just me talking, not any other member and certainly not Nathan, but I'd like to invite you to crawl back under the rock from whence you came. However, the folks at NorthAmericanMotoring.com might appreciate your troll style. As for me, you gained no points.

 

MINIFini:

The "ClubLink" = $395 + $27.75 shipping

ClubLink Attachment Base = $238.00 + $21.50 shipping

Receiver Attachment = $81.95 + $15.00 shipping

That equals $714.95 + $64.25 shipping = $779.20

I ordered my CURT from eTrailer, for $157.60. That included free shipping, and Euro Drawbar - 1-7/8" Ball.

$779.20 - $157.60 = a difference of $621.60, but I'd still need to purchase a drawbar and ball on top of that. The euro drawbar is $27.51, which means the MINIFini costs $649.11 MORE for me to own. (I was off by 89¢ on my initial $650 estimate)

The CURT is rated for 200 lb tongue, while the more expensive one is rated for HALF that, at 100 lbs. The more expensive one has a LOT more parts, and leverages more further from the mounting points, hence the lower tongue rating. I chose the more robust design.

Being part of the "MINI Community" was not my goal when purchasing this car, and online "social acceptance" has no bearing on the way I vote with my dollar. I just don't understand how buying from someone who shows up to sell their products at MINI-gatherings provides any benefit to me.

There will always be aftermarket support for my car, whether the people who profit from us attend social functions or not, because there is a demand.

Until there is PROOF of illegal activity, I'll support the brand that offers the higher quality product, at a competitive price, without resorting to spreading nasty rumors about their competition.

I should be able to recommend the Hitch I chose, without such harsh backlash. It's a real shame that RUMORS and hearsay have made my OPINIONS resented. I'm just glad I don't have to listen to any of that to enjoy my wonderful car. I will continue to think for myself, and enjoy my most amazing car ever, despite what the community thinks of my opinions. Approval does not matter to me, hence the courage to state my unpopular views.

We all buy things for different reasons, and should not judge others by their choices. If buying from the people who show up at events matters more than quality and/or price, then good for you. Enjoy your purchase for your own reasons. What anyone else thinks doesn't matter.

If you choose to buy something for form over function, that's your right - and I respect that. I voiced my opinion for my purchasing decision, and I'm amazed at the negative responses. Luckily, no one can take my MINI away for making my own purchasing decisions. The beauty of a free market economy.

 

If you don't care about being part of the MINI community, then why bother to post here?

Keep telling yourself saving a buck and supporting a shady dealer was worth it. Say it enough times, and you might actually begin to believe it!

 

Six hundred and fifty bucks, remember? I was only saying the "shady dealer" might not be who you think it is. Sometimes vicious accusations are dealt to focus attention away from the truth. I was merely suggesting people look at the facts, and think for themselves. Try it, it's fun!

Nice "Harbor Freight" avatar, cct1. What's that all about? Do you support that community too? Harbor Freight would never even consider ripping off other peoples' designs, would they? Although I do have a few questionable Snap-On tools that look very similar to Harbor Freight's.

Okay, I've stated my views, so I'll let the "community" take it from here. Good day.

 

LMAO--have you ever even been to Harbor Freight? Snap-On is a BIG company, and if there was any copyright infringement, they'd be on it pretty quick. They can afford to, whereas companies like MDM and Outmotoring, cannot.

HF sells cheap tools, mainly from Pittsburgh, Chicago Electric and U.S. General; all legitimate companies.

But you're right in one respect: you get what you pay for. If I want quality, I buy Snap-on, among others, overpriced as it is. Or I might go for something in between at Menard's. If I want a disposable tool, or a backup tool for the track, or I need something quick (ever tried getting anything quick from Snap-on?) I buy something cheaper. I don't believe Snap-on patented, and still has patent protection, on tool boxes, box wrenches, allen wrenches, torque wrenches, etc. but I could be wrong. If so, Sears, Menard's, Fleet Farm, they all are in a heap of trouble....

Good try at confusing the issue though.

 

Dave I respect your points above but the Black 13 guy is waaaaaaaay out of line.

 

Minidave, the issue is CURT bought the MDM hitch, specifically to copy it. Many of us have a problem with that. It's not new news, it's been known for awhile. It's also not the first time a vendor has bought another vendor's product, and tried to copy it. It's been done with everything from wings to heads to cams. And those vendors that do that, they get called out too.

No one would care if it was MINIFINI or Outmotoring; nobody who bought a MINIfini for example would call someone out for ordering the Outmotoring hitch, both MINIFINI and Outmotoring are well respected both for developing cool things (Minifini) and outstanding customer service (Outmotoring). You're confusing supporting your favorite vendor (which does happen, we have our favorites, and many of us--myself included--have gone over the top supporting a legitimate vendor over another legitimate vendor) with calling out a vendor who did a very crappy thing to a small company. Not cool.

Aaron probably dropped the price of the MDM hitch because he could--Outmotoring, by MINI standards, is a relatively large company, so he can afford to, this is all theoretical, he probably doesn't need the profit margins MDM needed to keep going--props to him for doing it. MDM, on the other hand, was a relatively small company in the MINI world, had to pay to develop the hitch out of their own pocket, and needed to recoup some of that in their sales. CURT took a shortcut, let MDM do the major development, and reaped the benefits without any of the development expense. Yes, that pisses people off, when a good, small company gets taken advantage of like this.

It's not the first time it's happened, it won't be the last, but it will still piss people off, especially when there are so few companies that actually develop new QUALITY parts for the MINI market.