I get Nates point... really, many do nothing to not make waves, and this allows the scamming to increase. Many think that there's nothining they can do, so don't even try, leading the scamming to increase. Many participate, looking for the corner to cut that is the scamming in the first place. But I agree with Nates premis that this is getting more and more pervasive, almost a cultural norm, and that is not good at all. Here's another facet: In the infotainement industry, there is little reward for thoughtfull, in-depth coverage. It's all about ratings, and if that means amplifying the noise and distorting via implication or outright lies, so be it. The ratings are generated and the add $ come in. but little information is actually broadcast. Just like the case of tolerating the imperfect burger, those that feed at the trough of information BS feed the system. As long as there are more that will do that, there is little hope for change. Yet another facet: Voting with one's emotional center instead of reflection on policy positions and past voting record of candidates. How many times does one hear someone interviewed saying some crap about feeling like they'd enjoy a beer or a BBQ with candidate X, Y or Z? Voting shouldn't be an emotional activity, it should be an intellectual activity... Sad thing is, in pretty much all cases, a significant portion of our population doesn't care to change, so we're stuck with it. Very depressing. Matt
And Paul.. Leaving that company was the right thing to do. I wasn't going to compramise and settle for the BS answers, they wouldn't change, so it was off to greener pastures. Now, the final outcome is a mixed message. I got a nice raise to leave and come back to California. But in the start of the fiber optics rush, they were bought for like 30 Million dollars (based on other technologies). I didn't have equity though... What's intersting as well, the group I was in had the BS ethics, the other two divisions didn't and built best in class products. Anyway, the king BS artist was in aposition that couldn't be changed. So I left. He left about 6-8 months later. I guess that the group had been trapped by the BS and there was no way for him to keep doing what he did. Matt
Nate, I do understand your point about Walmart. Me being an informed consumer, which some of Americans are not, do know that there are models specifically sold only there. But I have absolutly no problem with Walmart selling a lesser model, one that a consumer can actually pay for :eek6:, what a concept, people living within their means. And about people not demanding their moneys worth, if I go to a restaurant and don't get good service then the tip is accordingly givin. There seems to be a difference in which area of the US you are in also. We just got back from a week in the New England, Boston area, and the service there was appalling, it actually made Kalifornia seem nice.....:lol:
Matt - Definitely seen that movie before. Sounds like you made the right move. Never seen "Office Space"?
I'm often told by my supervisor to stop working on things, it's good enough, no one will care. Then it comes back, as the client was not satisfied. When this happens, he will blame it on us for not doing it right in the first place. When we remind him that he had us stop working on it, he just snarls, walks off saying, fix it, but don't spend any time on itut::mad2: Mark
PErfect example of the mutually exclusive directive. A key method for bad middle managers. If the customer is happy, it's the manager that gets the credit for keeping the workers from wasting effort. If the customer is unhappy, the worker gets the blame for a crappy job. At my old job in the semi-industry, there would be these massive downturns. Orders would drop by 30% or more, and everyone was at massive overcapacity. So personnel costs would be very high. The directive would come from above: Run in the black during the downturn (means fire everyone who's within earshot). But be ready for the upturn (means keep the extra capacity on line so that a really large increase in productivity could be turned on in a couple of months). Group leaders would just pull out thier hair, as there was no way to do both. I also hear the "informed customer" defense of the market. I think it's currently impossible to have the absolute information required to make an informed decision. Take electronics. To know if the product is good, it has to be bought by enough people and used for long enough to get close to it's design lifetime. And the model change is much shorter than that. These things will reflect on brand reputation, but that's a much longer time constant. How many of us have the tools (heck, even know what the required tools are) to know if there is lead in a product? Or phalates? Or endocrine disruptors? Or what to look for to know if there is a decent chance of exposure? OR formaldahyde in sheetrock, or SO2? Marketing isn't just about informing the customer, it's about creating local distortions in the market to favor ones product vs a competitors. This is far from the ideal of perfect inforation with no time delay required for the optimal operation of a free market system. Yes, the customer can contribute more or less to a degree of informed purchase, but with the degree of complexity and the assymmetry in the information toolbox, the deck is really stacked against the consumer. So, what's a buyer to do? IT's a bit off the topic of mediocracy, but I see it as a related correlary. It's OK to scam the system with false bias inorder to achieve a short term advantage. Increases sales is used to justify massive abuses of market trust, and often the penalties when caught are trivial when compared to the profits the fraudulent behaviour created. And it's seen as "business as usual" by many. More decay in the system.... Matt
Yup, that's what happens. We are also let go at the first hint of a lack of work, but you better be available when things pick-up, or you will never get another call back. Not sure how he justifies his job while the shop is dark. Mark
UL works, mostly, doesn't it? So does Consumer Reports, yes? Seems like there are private-sector approaches that can work to improve consumer information, even for complex products and issues. Certainly they could be done better. And certainly there's room for regulation in some areas. Standards of living have risen so dramatically in the US in the past century... we have soooooo much more "stuff"... and the stuff is so much more complex... this is a trade-off...
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't UL voluntary? Isn't it just a level of basic standards. Like my toaster is not going to easily catch on fire when I use it to toast (for you Jerry) the bun for a burger? I'm not knocking them, UL has done a great service to us all but who really looks for a UL tag when buying an electrical device?
I think the consumer is more informed now more so than anytime in the past. We see and process more information in a single day than the average person in the 19th century may encounter in his or her lifetime. When a snake-oil salesman came through town and planted one person in the crowd to swear by his product that was the total amount of information that people would have about the product and they had to make a decision to buy right then and there. Now when a new product comes to a consumers attention they can access hundreds of resources from consumer advocacy groups like CR, material data safety sheets, independent user reviews, technical data on the manufacturers specs, government documents about health concerns and recalls, and a million other things through a simple search. I think you have a skewed view on marketing, it's really changed from the '50s when there was a lot of spin involved. Sure we want the consumer to see our product as the best out there. But they aren't convinced by just being told it is, these days the product needs to stand on its own in at least some respect so that the independent research the consumer does will back what we want them to believe. MINI never says their cars are the best, safest, most efficient or anything else, they just market it as fun and let the consumer figure the rest out for themselves. I do now having experienced products in Asia that don't get inspected by UL. Imagine a surge protector like any one you see in the US. Now imagine it mysteriously smoking one day. You unplug it, take the thing apart and realize it's not a surge protector at all, it was a chinese made piece of junk that had a cheap switch, an LED light, and 18 Gauge wire splitting the switches output into 8 different plug sockets. I'm sure there was some lead in there somewhere too. These particular things are all over Southwest Asia, throughout the Orient, and probably common in India and Russia too and will catch fire if you ever tried to plug both a computer and printer into them.
I took this thread as a "lack of Customer Service" trend. No one wants to do their job.... or do it well. Everywhere you go, service is not satisfactory. There isn't that "common courtesy" that there used to be, or the sense of pride in your work. Ex: My husband took the morning off work not too long ago so we could have an island built in our kitchen. The carpenter said he'd be over at 10am. He ended up being 1.5 hours late. No call, nothing. He didn't even say anything about it when he came in, like it was expected. WTF??? I also love the enthusiasm you get from people behind counters..... like they are so freakin' annoyed that they have to DO THEIR JOB!!!??? BTW- I do not shop at Walmart for those reasons....... AND the fact that I feel like I'd get mugged in the parking lot by the type of clientele that is attracted to their "rock-button" prices.... at least that's how the one is by me. Kitty 2 cents
There is that lack of customer service these days, no pride in a job well done, or going the extra mile to help someone. When you do find someone like that you tend to reward them by coming back time and time again. This is an odd case in point, I recently required emergency oral surgery. As many of yuo know I have no health insurance. The Dr my DDS refered me to was very understanding and gave me a very nice discount. The aftercare has been incredible. That evening the Dr called me to check up on me. Not one of his staff but the actual Dr. He gave me his home and cell #'s just in case and told me not to hesitate to call. On a follow-up visit a week later he noticed something he was not happy with and at no extra cost fixed the issue. This required him to put me under again. Not only did his staff give me ride home but they also brought my car home too. The service at this office is so far off the charts that I wish I needed their services more just to experience the high level of care they offer. Ohh and Kitty...you'd not feel like you would be mugged in my local Walmart, you'd want to do the mugging, not many Walmarts around with a parking lot full of MB's, BMW's and the the occasional Bentley. Yes, Virgina, there is a Gucci Walmart and it is in Plano TX.
LOL. Target down the block from my work is the same way. The front parking spots are usually occupied by S class Mercedes, Range Rovers, Porsches and Bentleys. Of course around here we call it living ghetto fabulous. I recall living in in a $700/mnt apartment when I got out of the Army back in 2001. The building was in a bad enough neighborhood that my crappy 89 Honda was being broken into every other month because I would leave my burned CD's in plain view. Anyway, some of the people in the building who lived in similar cheap dwelling yet managed to drive around in MB G55 AMGs which I am sure cost more a month than what they spend on rent. Ghetto Fabulous!
Precisely my point. The Sony they sell may as well not be a real Sony after all the demands that Wal-Mart puts on them. The same is true of the "name brand clothing" they sell. It may have the same company name on it, but Wal-mart forces them to cut as many corners as possible and they do it at the expense of quality and it doesn't concern them one bit.
See I don't get you. Tell me how are people supposed to buy, so called, "real" name brand clothing? How can they afford to spend $80. bucks on a pair of jeans? If Walmart can get them a decent pair for $12. what's the problem? You see that's what wrong with America today, EVERYBODY wants or thinks they need the best. I belive Walmart provides a service that is benefical to the people that need it. Nobody is forcing them to walk into the store, they go in because they can afford to shop there.
To get into Walmart Levi Jeans had to lower the quality of their product to meet a price point. For years Levi is synonymous with a quality pair of blue jeans. Now when you go into Walmart and buy your Levis you are expecting a certain level of fit and finish along with staying power. These jeans are not of the same quality yet are branded the same. To the educated that take the time or have the interest to read business news articles you know you are buying a cheaper Levi from Walmart and why it is less expensive. For the great masses they see the Levi, equate that with the brand they know and expect a certain level of quality that is now not there. In the end who really saves, sure Mr and Ms Middle America saved 20 bucks on a pair of jeans. But when in a year they need a new pair cause they are falling apart did they really save over buying a better quality jean that would have lasted them many more years.
Nathan basically summed up my response to you already. When I say "name brand" I don't mean Designer lables....I'm just talking about buying a product from a well known brand without being touched by the demands of Wal-Mart. I'm not suggesting someone go out and buy $200 designer jeans because they're "cool". But you can buy affordable Levis jeans which are high quality. When you buy them for $9 from wal-mart their usual quality has been HEAVILY compromised. I'd rather buy $25 Levis that last 5 years than $9 Wal-Mart Levis that last one year due to lower quality materials. More cost effective for those on a budget as well.
I used to shop in WalMart when I lived in Huntsville, GA. It was right across the street from the drive way of the trailer park I was living in. No joke. :frown2: Mostly I was buying Red Dog beer for $5.45 a 12 pack. Good times, good times. I buy my Levi's at Sears.
We shop at Walmart all the time, and even with my 12 grade egecation I understand that I'm not walking into Macys. And speaking of Sears, I buy my Wolverine work boots from them and a informed consumer will know that Wolverine sell's boots made in the USA and boots made in China, some people can only afford the Chinese boots, which at least gives them the option.