Most liked posts in thread: MINI (BMW) Sold out!

EFFIN, Bastardized, MINI

 

Like both the Mazda's. With the s2000's forever gone, and the BRZ underpowered and expensive to increase power, if the MINI was ever gone, the new Mazda would be on the short list.

Was there any hint of a TRD FRS, or a BRZ STi?

 

I don't understand what it is you want MINI to do - keep making the exact same car year after year?

Each new gen has been lighter than the previous, safer, has more performance, better handling and gets better mileage - how is that a fail?

And don't forget, a lot of the front end styling has less to do with what MINI wants and more to do with what the Euro pedestrian laws have mandated.

I haven't seen the car in the metal yet, so I won't comment on the looks, tho I have to say my first impressions are not positive - but till I do I'll reserve comment on that.

I do agree that they've gone silly with all the electronic "enhancments" but I'm pretty sure you can still order one without any of that stuff.

My point is, other than the looks what's yer beef?

And how about some specifics?

As to the Mazda, I hate the look of the current M3-M9, and if you read the forums, they almost unaminously will tell you that each succeeding gen of the MX-5 since the first has simply "lost the plot", becoming smoother, more refined and having considerably more power, while getting heavier, adding too many features and loosing it's sharp edged handling.

Sound familiar?

 

I will add that I like the side view of the F56 and the 2L definitely interests me! I'm ready to see them in person. I know it would make it heavier and 'less a MINI' to some, but I would love to see AWD on the hardtop.

I had a blast in my AWD, turbo 4G63 (2.0L) talon back when I had it!

 

Disappointed in the styling, though. The front looks like a generic Japanese sedan, not a sports car.

 

I agree that the Classic Clubman hatch did not look good, the longer front end done so they could introduce a more modern engine looked completely out of proportion to the rest of the car, the wagon tho looked OK with it's longer wheelbase to offset the longer front end.

However, I don't think MINI could get away with just introducing new tape versions of the R53, the popularity of the Countryman (1/3 of all MINI sales this year?) tells us that the market is changing and MINI could not survive on just one car - the hatch.

Like I said some of the look of the front end is due to Euro ped standards, but the busyness of the front end is certainly not. I'm withholding final opinion on the looks till I see it in person in March at the car show....but as I look at the concepts that were introduced at this year's international car shows, it seems like they all had horrible crazy busy front end styliing - maybe MINI is just ahead of the trend? And no, it's not a trend I like at all - I like clean, simple, purposeful fluid lines.

However, I'm still not clear on the OP's comment that MINI sold out? Sold out to whom? And for what? Meaning MINI is trying to sell old skool cars in a modern trending marketplace?

Not sure what he was going for there.....

Anyone know when the 2014 configurator will be online?

 

How should it look? What would make it look more like a sports car to you? What's missing? Just curious...

Years ago my wife wouldn't be caught dead driving a Japanese car of any stripe - saying that they had "no soul".....

No one has ever been able to tell me exactly what that means...including her. She still doesn't like Japanese cars tho .. :biggrin5:

 

Your glasses are broken..... :sly:

 

But let's get back to Marty....lol

 

I think I'm going to buy a Vega.

 

Yeah, the funny thing about the first Miata was that it was a dead nuts on copy of a Lotus!

 

Everytime I see that picture of the F56 JCW, I love it a bit more!

 

I was saying last night that it would be great if MINI would offer a stripped out version of the hatch, sort of like Porsche occasionally does. However, you would be crazy to think that the company could survive on that type of model alone without the price going up even more.

Let's say the R53 was still in production, would you trade the Mistress in on one? Would you continue to mod the new one and repeat the cycle every 5-6 years? Do you really think that there are enough enthusiast like the ones here to support the business case to continue to make the same car year after year?

I don't know a lot about the history of the classic, but it seems that part of the mystic was also that it was an affordable car for the masses. I wouldn't say that has ever been the case with the modern version. To many other options in small fun hot hatches out there that are cheaper. Maybe not here, but definitely in Europe.

I think it is great that there are passionate owners out there, but let's face it the majority of the owners are not. Would you alienate the majority for the sake of the few? Would you downsize your company and turn it more into a niche business like Caterham or Morgan?

 

You consider 2006 being there in the beginning?

I bought a 2003 JCW, so I DO understand what you're saying, however as was pointed out above, that's not a viable business model. There would be no new MINIs if they didn't expand and grow.

What's causing the increase in "nannys" is customer demand, it's not originating with MINI. They're just trying to go where the market is, and I assure you they didn't build the R53 just so people could modify it.

But this entire discussion is pretty silly really, they're gonna do what they're gonna do.....

And you can buy a nanny free (to a point) Cooper S still......you don't have to have comfort access, or any of the other high tech add ons.....so if you don't want them, don't buy them. but the reason they're on there is that most people do buy them and want them, and it's a cash cow for any manufacturer today.

 

Well said! :thumbup:

 

Well it looks like the some above and others have completely missed the point so keep buying the mass produced "viable business models" cars.

Keep feeding the BMW "Cash Cow" and enjoy driving a Nanny and BS loaded washing machine car.

P.S. We all know 2006 was not the beginning but it was the year MINI stopped making MINIs with a SOUL.

 

They should do that for sex too.

 

Isn't that what they're doing with the GP's and JCW's? Of course, they're making up for the lack of options by charging an "exclusivity tax"!

So if I'm reading this right, what you want is for them to offer you a bare bones modifiable car with a minimum of add on options - that's what you think MINI should be today.....and well into the future.

And how many of those a year do you think they'd sell?

I think it would be in the hundreds, cause once they got the hardcore "way it used to be" guys into a new car, no one else would want them. I went thru this with Porsche.....

Lest you all miss MY point, I agree that the cars are getting too big, too optioned and too damn expensive. I also am not sure on the new look - I think they're aiming for the Rocketman" concept front end, which I think looked awful - a little to "Finding Nemo" for me.

But the ever tightening emissions requirements, fuel mileage requirements (R53's when modded sucked gas) and safety requirments make that almost impossible....and I haven't heard of anyone making huge HP in a BRZ since they came out - not saying they can't, but I'm not seeing a huge modifications club on those cars either.

But if they are to survive, they need to go where the market is, I don't think they can make it on the few bare boned cars the enthusiasts want to buy. And if as you say, the profit's in the options, what incentive do they have to sell a few hundred cars a year like that?

As for the bloated BMWs I completely agree......but it's the same problem, they're going where the market is and sales have increased every year since they did.

I mean, who wouldn't want a modern 2002?

I know I would.

Oh wait, I think I already have one......

 

You totally missed my point. I get what they are doing.

What they could do ON TOP OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING is sell a limited number of stripped down, unmodified MINI's, with a stripped down ECU, and the ability to have it. Subaru and Toyota can do it, but BMW can't? The modded R53's are brutal on the track, the R56's can't keep up--if they could be modded, different story. The F56 admittedly might be able to, if they put the 2.0 liter in it, but even then, it'll have a ceiling that I doubt tuners will be able to easily touch. It the very near future, 300HPish R53's on stock ECU's will be rearing their ugly heads. 250HP is already easy on an R53. It's frustrating that the old, outdated R53 is MUCH easier to turn into a beast than the refined R56.

Not a bunch of money there, but it would be a nod to what got them off the diving board. And they would make up for it in press.

GP as a "stripped down" modding platform? GP1 yes. GP2 no.

People are making big HP in the BRZ. You just need to know where to look. It's been turbo'd, and they are definitely getting there.

I am bummed that if I was starting from scratch, I'd have to go to a different platform, or try and find a used R53 in good condition, which is getting increasingly difficult. Hopefully that will never happen.

 

I think most of us get it, but we also realize that there is a difference between selling out and continuing to do business. What I take from the R53er's is that it would have been better for BMW to let MINI die off instead of making the changes that the majority of potential consumer's were asking for.

I believe some else commented on the fact that this is not only a BMW/MINI trend, it is a whole automotive industry trend. Cars keep getting bigger and stuffed with technology and "nannies".

P.S. Wouldn't actually be 2007 since the 'vert was still based on the R53 platform (or do 'verts not count as having a soul).