Great discussion. In my experience, I don't agree with the above. Driving is probably the one thing in my life where passion overrides and trumps my needs or being reasonable :biggrin5: My first car was a 944, 1982, first year of their introduction....definitely was not a reasonable car by any means, but my gosh what a driving experience. Such a fantastic, naturally netural handling car that for years Car and Driver performed all of their tires tests on 944's. I look at Mini(at least in their current state) the same way. There is no other marque like it, anywhere, at any price. Absolutely nothing reasonable about them, not the entry price, the MPG, and certainly not the maintenance. In fact, from virtually any aspect of practicality or economics, purchasing a new Mini is insane. But driving a Mini puts a smile on my face and just puts me in a mood to drive it, hard, for a great distance, just like that 944 did. A few weeks ago, I took the CMJCW in for service and got a loaner, an MCS 6 speed. instead of going home, I drove it out of town and into the country, through an entire tank of gas, and had a ball-popping and gurgling all the way home....love these cars.....
That is exactly why they came out with all the other models, but could have if they wanted too, left the R53 alone.. It could have been their "special" "limited edition", or whatever they wanted to call it. In hopes of creating a new classic. As we all know we the enthusists are the minority in MINI car buying. Way more people buying MINIs that it is just a cute DD car. No more no less. Maybe 10 percent of those do cosmetic mods, ( wheels, stickers ) less then half of those will do performance mods, ( cat back, CAI pulley, tune, etc ) Kinda like posters on here. Maybe 10% of the members access the site regular, and only 10% of those actually post regular. Look in this thread. It's mainly the same people you see in all the other threads!!!
B.A.D. Ok some good points. But it doesn't bother me that they have different models. I would love to have a Clubvan, I don't know why I just like it. They are changing the brand based on surveys. Those same surveys say that after someone has the car for a few mounts they like it. So at first you can't find the window switch and it's annoying. Then you get use to it and start to like it because that's MINI.
I think what we are all saying is MINI needs to have some models that they make money on to stay on business. We all want them to do that. But they need a "halo car". For Chevy its the Corvette. They don't make the margin on it they make on other cars but it defines their reputation. MINI thought that was the GP but what we want is a simpler halo car, a Miata, a BRZ, an early Datsun Z. The market went crazy for the MINI before the GP so the Cooper should be a model to itself with the minimum electronics that the government will allow. Then let us that carry the MINI banner play with it.
Odd ergonomics are part of the experience. After a while you get used to them & don't even notice their oddness. When MINI changed the window switch locations on the countrytruck I figured we were in for more changes that I wouldn't care for. Now they are here in the form of the F'n56. :frown2: Even if I had a GTI I'd still cruise this forum. The VW ones that I have been to are not as fun as this little part of the web. There seems to be no love in VW forum land. Maybe we should start a VW thread. The MKI GTI is the best, why are they doing those things to the MKVII???
Not a darn thing wrong with building a few different models, I for one like the Countryman, but there should always be that core Mini for the enthusiast. The one that gives all the other models the soul of what Mini is...
With the first iteration, that's exactly what they did. Now, with each successive generation, they're going less retro and more modern, they're losing more and more of the initial enthusiasts, and they're catering to refinement/luxury more than economy/performance. The diversity of the inital buying crowd is being exchanged for mainstream. They are in the process of going from Neopolitan to Vanilla. Like I said, I wouldn't buy an R56 or F56. They've lost a ton of the initial fanatics who came from all walks of life, and turned it into a car for the upper middle class. When you look at the heritage of the original mini, it's sad.
Why? Because the cars would break down? That's just a silly statement, if I knew I could keep getting a new R53 platform every couple a years I'd continue to buy new, who wouldn't? Yes I also purchased a Countryman, but a justa as I didn't want to deal with the turbo and all it's issues. Will I every but another new MINI, perhaps not if they all will come with turbo. Now a turbo diesel, let's have!
I started this post after listing to WRR. I listen to show 494 today and they had this same discussion. It was more balanced I thought.
Most of the public, and even most R53 owners, wouldn't just automatically buy a new R53. They evaluate their situation and look at what's available on the market. You're starting with the premise that the R53 is such a desirable car (to the general public) that MINI can just keep cranking out the same car year after year and it will sell just fine. I think that's silly.
There are a couple and I do. It is actually interesting how many people on those sites have wives or gf's that have MINIs. I always direct them here when they have questions. Actually the Off-Topic forum on the one site is hilarous, it kind of reminds me of what I remember Off-Topic being on MU. I find the rest of the site to be very informative, but a little less personable. Then again, I'm still new and haven't had the opportunity to go to any VW specific events and meet people in person. New GTI is a good comparison to the F56 conversation. I personally do not like the looks of it, but the performance improvements are interesting. I think the next R is going to be great and think Doug will be happy if he gets one.
It is still the best Modern MINI to own period. The proof is in the loyalty of its owners and how many people seek out an R53 over a new MINI. Not to mention those that have had both and went back to the car with a soul. If you cant see that then you have bigger problems. I for one would buy another R53 in a heartbeat new or used. They new MINI's are something I will NEVER buy or support. Remember its a car thing not the people that own them.
My point is, is the R53 sustainable (sales and profit) to keep in production year after year? I believe not, but we're arguing about hypotheticals.
Actually me thinks the R53 could have evolved without making it bigger and softer.... Stiffer chassis, lighter components, better brakes, better seats with more support, etc, etc.... Evolution without the growth hormone!!
I agree Mark, but unfortunately the good ship R53 has sailed never to come back to home port. Us R53 owners had better take car of our cars. There are going to be no more of them, mores the pity. :frown2: