3rd Gen F56 Cooper S My thoughts on the F56

ABS is required by law on all new cars sold in the US and Europe. Did the wheels lock up?

 

I'm not sure about that. I would say that they could continue to turn a profit for a long time with flat sales based on just the price they are selling them at.

 

Since I have a front row seat to who's buying these things...

I'm getting quite a few repeat MINI buyers who still love the brand. I'm getting families who love the new 4-door but could never fit in a 2-door. I'm getting people who are new to the brand, and LOVE the car - the handling, the design, the color choices, the interior.

The only people I've heard the slightest complaint from, are usually the elderly who still complain about confusing turn signal operation and a busy ride. So, they haven't turned into mini-Camrys yet.

Yes, they've gotten slightly bigger. Yes they've taken some of the quirk out. Yes they've refined the cars a little. To the MINI purist, this is an atrocity against MINI humanity, I know.

That being said, most of the people in charge at MINI know that keeping the quirk is still very important to the brand. MINI is about being different, but still being functional, and at the end of they day, the brand still needs to place high in certain industry surveys that say these cars are worth buying, otherwise people will avoid the brand, even if it's just ******** complaints about window switch placement that drive the survey results down.

Reliability is up, initial quality is up, customer satisfaction is up, and sales IMPROVED last month in a month where it's usually a bust (see: MINI USA August Year-on-Year Sales Up 2.1% - MotoringFile).

I said this elsewhere, and I'll say it again - I think the new Clubman and upcoming Countryman should allow the core F56/F55 models to maintain their size, lose some weight, and get even more focused in the next generation. And that goofy radio will eventually go away, it's a stopgap until the feds mandate backup cameras in 100% of an automaker's sold vehicles.

 

After finally driving one last month I have to say I like the engine and the seats the best. No it doesn't have the edginess of my R53. But not much does.
It's quieter and more refined. A bit more like my wife's Focus ST or a GTi. Only more tippy.
It does feel a bit larger. Than gen 1 and 2 but not as big as a Speed 3.

But I can't stand the face. I'm sure some one is working on a replacement bumper cover.

 

There are the existing MINI enthusiasts, there is the non-enthusiast MINI owners and finally there are the new potential buyers with little or no MINI experiences...

The last group may not have any knowledge of what MINI was before the evolution. The MINI was just something they saw on the road or someone they knew might have had. Their major buying decisions are developed from the dealer visit and the test drive... They may not be interested in the performance or handling experience or the *Tweaking* of the changes in the appearance of the MINI. If they like the car and can afford it they will probably become new owners...

BMW /MINI probably looks at the first two groups as somewhat "Loyal" owners, who may or may not move onto the new models... They are more focused on the last group... That's where they are putting most of their hope on future sales growth... And it's probably what is driving the changes that we see.


*Tweaking*: Not what Miley Cyrus does....

 

Zillion I agree with most of what you said, except for the slightly bigger--put an R53 next to an F56--replace "slightly" with "significantly" bigger and we're closer. Most of the car reviewers say the same, it's not just my perception.

As for the quirkiness, some remains, but too much has been taken out, so much so that an F56 interior is closer to a BMW interior than an R53.

If they reduce size in the next gen like you are suggesting, that's a tacit acknowledgement by BMW that the MINI is too large. But there's hope if they go in this direction.

Presently they've lost the original R53 hardcore enthusiasts by making the car more refined and accessible to a wider demographic, I get that and have gotten over it. The MINI brand has gained more than it has lost, the numbers don't lie, but they have lost a pretty cool group of people since inception, those who've been around since 2002 know what I'm referring to.

 

Wait... hang on.

'Yellowbritishrocket' is complaining about the F5x cars, but is ordering a Paceman?

This discussion is over. :lol:

 

The engine and seats are bloody fantastic.

I also think the face will improve with time, current BMWs have evolved quite nicely from the Bangle era.

Problem is, if you cater to ONLY the core group, eventually that core group either grows up or dies off.

Look what happened to Cadillac when they chased the legions of geriatrics in the 80s and 90s. They suddenly hit the late 90s and found their core customer base was dying off and thus they had to revamp the brand drastically.

And those purists will continue to buy up the remaining R53s. Nothing appeases them.

See, that's where you're wrong... and I can prove it so by pointing you to the mediocre vehicle we all know as the Camry. It's blander and more 'meh' than ever, but it still sells like hotcakes, and will continue to do so because it caters to such a wide group of repeat buyers who consider themselves Camry enthusiasts.

I don't mean enthusiasts in the traditional sense, where they're after an exciting drive, but enthusiasts in the sense that they get excited over getting a new version of the same car they've been driving for years, because they know it will start, run, and drive down the road more effortlessly than the one before.

When you have a niche brand, you need to walk a fine line between attracting new buyers and appeasing existing customers. Yes, the new F5x cars have pissed off the purists. But there's still a significant chunk of core owners who LOVE the brand, love the cars, and will continue to buy MINI as long as it doesn't stray too far. And it ultimately hasn't, yet.

 

A note on the sales figures that have been quoted above: the 2015 sales "increases" that MINI highlights are expressed as percentages year-over-year. the 2014 sales numbers were poor because of long-in-the-tooth products and delays in new model introductions (they sold about 13k fewer cars than in 2013 in the US), so MINI has been able to show an increase for 2015. Total annual car sales for 2015 will be above flat, but not remarkable, and less than 2013. That's why I said that the next 12 months will be telling.

 

Good discussion. While I defended the F56 in an earlier post, it is also true that this latest MINI is a significant departure from the R50-53 days.

My first test drive in an R53, I was sold by the time the car hit 3rd gear. It was clearly a fun little sports car. That initial reaction is lost with the R56 and F56 generation cars (with the exception of the GP2). It's a shame that BMW/MINI could not allow this to remain a niche car. Other brands manage to do that successfully.

But it is what it is, and you can still find driving pleasure at the top end of the range with the JCW manual. Holding out for the LCI to see if the appearance is improved. Until then, staying on the sidelines and enjoying the R53 and R55 in our fleet.

 

I think a big reason for the Camry's strong sales is the stellar reliability whether perceived or real . They run like a Maytag. MINI/BMW would do well to work on their own reliability. No I'm not an appliance lover.

 

"But there's still a significant chunk of core owners who LOVE the brand, love the cars, and will continue to buy MINI as long as it doesn't stray too far. And it ultimately hasn't, yet."
YET!

 

Some of the hardcore do snap up the R53's, but many more move on to an entirely new brand rather than move on to the next Gen MINI. It's a relatively small number from a sales standpoint, but a relatively huge hit if you look at those who have left from a performance enthusiast standpoint...

 

I agree with most of what you say, until you lump the R56 in with the F56. I am a long time sports/muscle car owner and find myself picking the Mini over my Vette most of the time. As far as I'm concerned one of the best rides I've ever taken was when I took my LT4 Vette with 400+HP and the Z51 suspension to the Dragon. Taking my Mini there for MOTD '14 was a very close second though. IMO the R56, with a few tweaks, is a great little sports car. And face it, how many of you R53 owners are running bone stock cars? I'm in the process of adding a few more mods to the Mini that I hope will make it an even funner car! Or should that be more better fun car? I'm a big fan of the R53 myself, but when I bought my Mini I only thought the purchase out for about 2 seconds. After my Mom's funeral my baby sister offhandedly mentioned she needed to get rid of her Mini for a bigger car to haul her Grandson around and I immediately said "I'll take it!". She ordered the car herself and got all the good options including LSD. I'm glad it happened like that because if I had researched the car I wouldn't have touched it with a ten foot pole and I'd be putting a lot more miles on the Vette,and to be honest, it's getting harder and harder to get in and out of the Vette. Getting old is inconvenient at times. :biggrin5::biggrin5:
I checked out a new F56 and was not impressed. I did like the seats though.

 

You forgot to include my next paragraph:

 

A ton of us mod the R53--and that's another reason why so many of the initial hardcore faithful left after the R53--the newer generation MINIs are substantially more difficult to mod from a performance standpoint. The R53 aftermarket got going in a hurry and continues to grow, the R56 took much longer to develop, and many of the vendors gave up on it altogether, or at least waited a significant amount of time to work with it. Time and again, I talked to tuners and aftermarket vendors when the R56 came out, and the refrain was the same--it wasn't worth the effort to devote a ton of time on it. So while the R56 mods have come in fits and starts, it's nowhere near what happened with the R53, it's harder to mod, and there isn't as much interest. I suspect the F56 will follow in those R56 footsteps in this regard.

 

Cars as a whole aren't getting any easier to modify, FWIW, and many brands/manufacturers are trying to prevent owners from working on their cars at all.