Dude.....if you look back on this whole thread.....YOU have mentioned Jan more than anyone by far :arf: I just went back 4 pages and guess what? No mention. Why don't you stop? I think it's done already. The thread has actually morphed in a good way.
Quoting an absolutely useless post in this thread that does nothing to further the conversation. I'll keep doing this...whos next?
Thanks Nathan. Think from the OP's post that it is clear that he was not an RMW fan or customer at the time all this took place. Understandably from what he has told me, he is looking at his options for his future modifications and work. And yes I have met and spoken to Alex in person at the Dragon. Sorry for the interruption.
You should take a course in reading, it is fun and productive. Just one example of RMW being brought up would be in a quick read through of Jason's own explanation amongst others....
Quoting an absolutely useless post in this thread that does nothing to further the conversation. Plus is a personal attack too... Strike 1
I am a Mynes customer and have been happy with what I have gotten. Having seen the pictures and the limited technical discussion here I have some concerns as anyone would. I understand that Camaro is out of town. Thank you for your offer to post additional pictures. The pictures of the piston or pistons show a lot of carbon build up. That could be the result of running the engine for a long time after it went bad. I would like to see evidence of the engine running lean and causing the problem. The first motor certainly showed evidence of detonation. To be specific can you post pictures of the following: The top of the pistons with the carbon scraped off? I would think if the tune caused the problem we would see some area of the piston that had been eaten away. Can you measure the clearance of the rings in the ring groove? If the engine was detonating the ring lands should have been hammered. Can you take pictures of the top face and bottom of the top compression rings? Detonation will often damage the piston ring. I would expect that the plugs are as covered in oil (carbon) as the pistons, but plugs are generally the first to show a problem. Can you chemically clean the plugs and show some pictures? This might or might not show the detonation after cleaning. Detonation should leave aluminum (piston and or head) on the porcelain. A picture of the head would be great as well. I would expect if detonation caused the problem to see aluminum eaten away from the quench area. The other area I would like to see if possible would be pictures of the valves out of the head. We should be able to see the valves were very hot (blue) if there was much detonation. I have to say that I am not sure the tune was the problem. From what I see and that is very limited, I do not see a lot of heat problems. If I was speculating, and that is all I can do with limited information I would look at the valve guides, especially the ones where the cam lobs failed.
Alex, Lets say we for a little bit we forget the first tune debacle. I have a few questions about the second motor, a.k.a. the "built" motor. It appears from your 1st post said "built" motor was a collaborative effort between Mike Wong and Jayson Bowman of Mynes Tuning and Hubie Fuh of ABF Performance, ABF Motoring, MEGAmini USA. Is this correct? Did you ever get anything in writting about what was going to be done in your "rebuild"? (You should have) Who was "building" the motor? Who was "tuning" the motor? Did you ever get a dyno tune sheet showing what your numbers were post rebuild? (I know they can generate these for other products they sell) Did you ever get a final detailed Bill with a brake-down of what was done to your supposedly newly build motor? [Parts, fluids, specs, anything] (You should have received something for $ 14 K) Was any warranty implied, included, or was it a clearly stateted this was a non-warranty motor rebuild? (You should received some type of information either way)
Karl, the head has been sold just FYI, so it may be hard to get those pictures. I was there the day it was tuned and Hubie and Jason were both in the car. but Jason would do a pull. pull the ecu out and take it away into the back room to play with. so for all we know he may have been tuning the car with a small crowd of church nuns in the back? Alice, I dont see how any bad can come from it. why not talk about an experience with a vendor. I know i would want to be warned before dropping this type of coin and getting this service.
The perpetuation of this thread is to find the truth as we have two different views on the OP situation. This in not the NAM (Thank GOD) so you just cant have people banned for expressing different opions for no reason. Please lets stay on topic (as Nathan said above) and if you have nothing to add just sit on the sidelines with your 2 cents.
The modi operandi of some in this thread is to change the topic, obfuscate with drawn out posts that add nothing and in general try to get these types of threads shut down. Personally, I am tired of those tactics and think that there is value in these types of threads. To that end I've trying new practices to keep the info flowing in a good manner.
Keeping the thread open with controls is much better than letting it self destruct and shut down. However, it does require much babysitting and vigilance by the moderators in order to keep the sand in the sandbox.
CarlB my apologies for reducing the font size of your first line. Neutrality may have a bigger impact here? What determines the difference between an engine re built with upgraded parts and a "built: engine? Its like you calling it a motor (electrical) and not an engine (internal combustion) semantics. It is a common occurrence from some of the MINI vendors not to supply detail invoicing of parts. A well know Performance Engine builder ENDYN has recently finished a couple of MINI "built" engines and they do not give the information you are expecting Chili-PA? ENDYN gives a parts descriptive invoice and the labor breakdown of work but not detailed information invoice as you personally are expecting. And especially not any kind power output guarantee. However ENDYN backs all their work and will explain or document a copy for you any machine assembled detailed information of an engine if you specifically request it. Also NO ONE anywhere to date (at least forum posted) has a truly "blueprinted" engine. This is not normally done on a mildly upgraded prepared engine as the one Alex received and is an additional cost and procedure. If one was to get this with their "built" (?) engine you would receive with most engine machine shops on delivery (from most all Performance Engine Machine shops) a detailed parts and measurement list. And in some cases a pre-run engine analysis from an Engine Dyno or a simple dry cyd. psi. chart. The emphasis on 14k paid is what value if he only paid a dollar? The retail invoice paid by a customer is their choice. They knew in the beginning and the end of a transaction what the amount was agreed to. Posting it as if it like it has merit here is useless? I see it like buying a car and learning later that the exact car you purchased was more/less then what you paid? In others words it really has nothing to do with anything.lol :lol: It may have already been established that Alex (Camaro)does not know to much about engines (no insult to you Alex) and you ask an advanced question like this directed at him? :crazy: :lol: ^^^^
This is hard since so many are quick to point fingers and place blame with out truly being neutral and looking at all the information here with out some bias. The fact that much of the information being looked at is based off of an incorrect diagnosis is a good indicator that the truth will not be found easily. In reality too much has already taken place to really figure out what went wrong any way and at this point the closest any one can expect is going to be all assumption. Not to be a jerk, but Alex is really not the person to be giving out build specs as he is not an engine builder and does not have the tools/ knowledge to carry out such an analysis. This goes for most throwing around their opinions here as pretty much no one in this thread actively builds these engines let alone ones meant to support turbo and 400+ HP. Many things have been over looked do to this fact. All the information people have on the condition of this engine is based on the inexperienced person who did the tear down and a few pics. This coupled with incorrect measurements, readings from a possibly faulty compression tester and no leak down test, what can actually be said about the true condition of this engine. Nothing since there is no actual usable data to support an engine failure. With the available info from the pistons alone the tune and the build don't seem to be off. I agree the power output was low at the time it was delivered, but I didn't see any one take into consideration it was just built or that it was tuned on that crap low reading dyno at Dynamic. Generally speaking from what I know about Mynes is they are very skeptical about tunes on fresh engines and shy from pushing them until the engine is fully broken in. Remember there is a big difference between dyno break in and actual break in. A few passes on the dyno just gets the engine tight enough to do some base lines and initial tuning. The rings still take some mileage to fully seat and seal. A fresh engine almost never puts out the power it would with a 1000+ miles on it. From what I know there was no dyno test after it left and the only proof of it's power is Alex bragging on line that it beat out cars that dynoed higher. Sounds more like it ran better then worse at that point at least. For an engine meant to see the power goals Alex was after, there will be some draw backs and compromises. One of which is oil consumption. Stock MINI's on their own will burn some oil. Any race engine, and this was built like one, will eat more oil do to the necessary increase in ring gaps and bore clearances. We are talking going from the standard 13/14 gaps on stock rings to something like 17/19 on the new rings. The bore clearance too must be slightly enlarged as the forged aluminum used for the pistons expand greater then that of stock. From his various responses, it seem evident Alex didn't ask a whole lot of technical questions and kinda just let Mynes / Hubie do their thing. This isn't necessarily bad, but it opens the door to some surprises that may not have been expected. In retrospect some more info could have been provided by the tuners/ builder, but it does not mean the work it self was faulty. Certainly it did not warrant the emotionally driven and hasty post that the work was bad and that all should stay away. Blame for this really would fall on both sides. Follow up and support could have been better, but as the owner it's Alex's responsibility to maintain and take care of the car. Shops can't be expected to hold some ones hand all the time. Instead of driving it for 10k, going to the dragon, racing ect. he should have sent the engine back or at least parked it until the situation was corrected. Despite the way it was diagnosed, from what I have read and heard Hubie was/is willing to do a rebuild or send parts to Alex. I'm not sure how much more he is expecting if this is not good enough, but for what ever reason he declined the offer. At that point it's really some other shops issue.
Lynn, your 3rd party vendor input with examples from a totally different vendor have no baring at all on this possible case. They bring no real valuable information what-so-ever. Thanks for trying to confuse the issue yet again. Also 14 K has all to do with what was received as it may be a determining factor if this would be higher than a small claims court case. If this does become a Lawsuit / court case (which it should be) maybe then Mynes and Co. may ask for your "Expert" opinion.
It most certainly does have bearing on this thread. He has more experience with engines and tuning than most everyone else here.