I just listened to Gabe's podcast. He could barely contain his excitement over the car. He's been enamored with the 1M for some time and had his name on a waiting list. I'd wager that he will be getting one.
I think it's fabulous. It is not an M1. You are comparing the wrong car. Try the E30. The 1988 M3. That is what this is a throw back to. A small powerful well handling car. This thing is going to be amazing. As for the price, yeah 60k is a bit much. We shall see what it costs when it hits the market. People can hate on it all they want. It's still going to be the best M car in a long long time.
Until it loses significant weight, it's not comparable to the 1988 M3. It's still heavy, with a bunch of HP to make up for it. I'd prefer an old school lightweight car with the same HP/weight ratio. If/when they ever get back to those roots, I might be interested.
Calling it "stupid" seems a bit dense. It's being built for the consumer that wants performance aspects that they can enjoy while still being able to enjoy a refined, comfortable driving experience. If someone wanted an all-out performance car they could turn to the Evo or STI, both of which are excellent track cars but have low quality interiors, a noisy cabin, and a stiff ride. Or, you could snatch up an Elise. Not exactly a comfortable or refined daily driver, but an amazing performer. BMW isn't trying to target this market. They're aimed at people who want a car that handles and performs well without having to sacrifice everyday drivability. I see nothing wrong about finding a fine balance between performance and luxury. BMW's tag line is "Ultimate DRIVING Machine" and not "Ultimate RACECAR" after all. They're cars that are meant to be driven and enjoyed on AND off the track. You don't have to choose between the two. You can find a gentle medium where both can equally be enjoyed without sacrificing too much from the other. Perfect for the majority of us car enthusiasts. $60k really isn't that out of line if you think about the fact that some people are willing to drop 35k-40k+ on a loaded JCW MINI which is BMW's low-end economy car.
Little too early in the game to draw that conclusion. And lets face it. It wasn't the BMWCCA, but BMW marketing who tried to pimp it as the 2002 for the new millennium.
That's the point. There isn't a balance. It is over priced, too heavy and not a great handling car. Gray wallpaper and the line is not fine, it is non-existant. Trying to please everyone and knowing full well you can't. Hence: Stupid. Not a hater, just wish SOMEONE would make a car that isn't gray wallpaper. Ford Mustang -- Too big and heavy and why bother with the back seat??? Make it 15% smaller and sleeker and make that sucker handle like a car should. Chevy Camaro -- Same thing. Dodge Challenger -- Same thing. Everyone of these car makers has models that fill the comfortable sporty family car niche and everyone of them does the same thing: Tries to make all of their cars work for everything -- Groceries, lumberyard, family of 5 and dad's autocross car. It is silly as hell. You would think the Germans would learn from the mistakes on the American car front, but nobody is. BMW needs a sports car that isn't $60k+ (or if it IS in that price range, it should kick the %$&# out of the others in that bracket without having to mod the crap out of it). They have more than enough models that straddle the line of weekday family car and weekend road warrior wannabe. Make one that actually IS in the lineage of the legendary M1. BMW could definitely use the injection of adrenaline and some race wins from a car that isn't from the late 80's.
You want a track day beast and you have $50k to drop? Spend it here: http://www.palatov.com/documents/dp4%20Brochure.pdf You want a roof, premium sound system, four seats, a trunk, heat and AC, crash and rollover protection, door locks, and a car that can hold its own on the occasional track day? Pick up a BMW 1M.
I am with Jimminni on this one only I want the wagon Johngo the American "sports cars" are all designed for what most Americans do drive on 18 lane interstates. They all learned years ago that men having mid life crisises also have money and wives that will relent if the car has rear seats. BMW is becoming like Ferrari, you want an entry level machine go buy a used one! Rally why you got be hateing on teh WRX interior? They borrowed a page from Mini and made the tach huge and the spedometer hard to read
Here is a pic of the original BMW M1. Are they really saying this 1 series is being built along the heritage line of the original M1? Or is it the 1 series built with M components?
I agree with most of what you said except for a couple of things... Lotus makes a car that IMHO isn't gray wallpaper. And the Ford Mustang? 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca package | The Big Picture It'll supposedly come in under 48K. No back seats; it's shed weight, and it's a street legal track car. I don't know if it was here or on another board, but this is EXACTLY what I wish BMW would do with some of it's offerings--if Ford is willing to do it with the Mustang, why won't BMW do it with the Z, 3, or 1 series? IMHO BMW has strayed too far from it's proud performance heritage to cater more to the mainstream. Financially that makes sense, but they could have the best of both worlds if they'd make a few limited number production cars that spares the creature comforts in a nod to performance. I can't believe it's come to this, but BMW could actually learn something from Ford....
There's always gonna be lovers. There's always gonna be haters. There is absolutely no way to please everyone with a product like the 1M. The 1addicts/bimmerpost site is ridiculous with all the bickering. Be it: manual vs dct / M pure vs. not M pure / better than M3 vs your are a ridiculous a$$h@le for even thinking that / it's beautiful vs its fugly / fixed rear seat vs 60/40 rear seat / carbon roof vs sunroof vs vert vs no sunroof. It's insane how quickly a good question or legitimate complaint turns into a beeyatch feast of snobs calling out others for being snobs. They cannot agree to disagree, even though when it comes to car freaks everyone has their own specific likes and dislikes. It is the nature of the beast. Anyhow, I've been following the development of this car for the past several months and it so happens that it is exactly what I am looking for at this point in my life. I am, however, a bit disappointed in a couple of things: - Engine output / fact that it looks like it is just the same one as the 335is/Z4is35 (or whatever it is called). I was hoping for a unique n54 variant with slightly bigger turbos and a ~360hp base number. - Colors available, don't love any of the three colors available. - Possible limited supply and all of the resulting effects (availability/pricing/test driving/etc.) With regards to the engine, the n54 is such a solid engine that I can get over the rated hp. And it is nothing that a little JB/Procede/Dimsport can't take care of if I find it underpowered for my driving (doubt it). I can live with a black or a white car (that orange doesn't do it for me), so color is not a deal breaker. Limited availability is the one that I am most worried about, since it could mean that at the end of the day I could be priced out of it. We'll see how that goes, it seems that BMW has changed their stance on the limited availability and has yet to officially confirm.
They are calling it the 1-series M Coupe trying to get as far away as possible from the M1. They have marketed the car as going back to the roots of the e30 M3 and is basically a 1-series with the LCI update, front and rear fenders on steroids, suspension bits/brakes/Limited Slip from the M3, wheels and tires from the M3 competition package, and nicer interior trim. Edit: I am not sure where the $60k price point is coming from, most rumors put the base price starting at $43-$46 in the US.
Just read ring time is 8:12 making it slower than the TT-RS (which I do not think we get in the US) and the latest Lancer Evo. Unfortunately there was no video, as to me the time is less important than how it did that time. Having riden in a 135 I just hope the suspension stuff they did got rid fo rthe understeer. Metalman if you want to see an M1 in person they have one at Kelley next to Easton their used showroom is one of the coolest rooms in Columbus lots of classic BMW goodies.
Man, I can't imagine what you think of the MINI if that's how you feel. rrr: MINI...mediocre interior build quality, limited engine performance, moderate handling, relatively heavy for a car its size... The MINI is a balance car too. A little sporty, a little commuter-based....but still loads of fun. Of course there is a balance. A 1M may not be equipped to instantly hit the tracks and win series , but I have enough faith that it will handle and perform well enough for the weekend HPDE attendee or the enthusiast who hits the twisties to have a blast....and at the same time the car will most likely be a comfortable, luxurious car to drive around town during the week. That's perfect for your average car enthusiast who isn't hitting the track 3 days a week every week. I'm sure a car company could make a lightweight, stripped out, track monster (and plenty do)...but honestly, how big is that market? Is there really enough demand to justify the effort? Spot on
Personally I think BMW marketing is shooting themselves in the foot by trying to capitalize on successes past. 135i was supposed to be the 2002. Did not happen. Now they want the 135iM to be the E30 M3. Why not just let the car stand on its own and make its own name? It might be just decent enough car without preconceived expectations.
Dude... I am allowed an opinion too. And just because it doesn't jive with YOUR all encompassing and all knowing views, I am not dense or wrong. Get over yourself, highness. rrr: BMW's entire line is full of sporty family cars. Trust me... You can't throw an anvil without hitting one on Atlanta's roads. I had a 335i. I know exactly how they handle and how they ride. They need something NEW and something FRESH. This is neither. Nothing special, nothing notable. If they are trying so desperately to get away from anything M1, then why even do an M Series 1 class??? And with the number of models and supposed enthusiasts BMW has, they should easily be able to support ONE true sports model.
Dude.... BMW is allowed an opinion too. And just because it doesn't jive with YOUR stripped racecar expectations and track needs, the 1M isn't "stupid". :crazy: