New 1 series M released

Now that everyone has poked each other in the eye lets get back to debating the merits of the car and BMW marketing please.

I see the "problem" to be multifaceted. Between the gov't mandates of stuff we have to put on cars nowadays and the manufactures need to one up each other we are seeing all kinds of stuff that really has nothing to due with the driving experience.

It's not that hard for GM or Ford to build a car to the level as BMW or Audi these days. Everything now comes with disc brakes on all four corners (for the most part) and fuel injection is standard across all lines. The days when BMW out engineered Ford are long gone. How many cars do we see on the side of the roads these days when compared with 20 years ago. It is becoming much harder for the car makers to distance themselves from each other. We have a very capable fleet on the roads these days.

The question becomes is there a big enough market for someone like BMW to create a stripped down version. Us car guys would like to see more and more of these but in reality when it comes to the real voting with our wallets we all want A/C, radios, noise deadening panels and all that other stuff we say we don't want when talking to each other.

The car makers for the most part build what we want. BMW's 5 GT not withstanding.

Cars are now mobile entertainment cocoons that are very capable. The pure driving experience is left to a very small minority of the car buying public and there are niche players in that game too such as Lotus and even Porsche with their special editions.

 

I am looking for a lightly used V10 M5. After two noisy, kidney shaking Mins the wife and I are looking forward to something a little roomier and more comfortable.

 

So sorry! Didn't realize I was offending such a Bimmer fanboy. And if you read, I didn't call the car stupid. I called the manufacturer stupid for trying to please everyone with one model. Pay attention.

Here is a question: When was the last time a manufacturer (and I mean one we can all afford, not the Aston Martin/Ferrari/Porsche crowd) put out a car that just made your heart race? Not one that you have to soup up with $30K worth of upgrades to make it handle "properly."

Just a sports car that is truly a sports car. I would bet you could count them on one hand, if you have to count at all.

We just test drove the Mustangs about a month ago because my girlfriend had her heart set on one. We were both very surprised and very disappointed. Those things are so poorly designed on just about every front, that she dropped any desire for one. The interiors and ergonomics are horrible. I am the typical 6' male they design to and it was awkward for me to get in and out of, she is short and couldn't push the clutch all the way in (yes, she wanted a standard) even with the seat all the way up. They are very big, very heavy cars, and until you get up to the GT or better, they are so sluggish it is kind of scary to drive. Even the GT felt like a very cramped living room on wheels. I have sat on couches that handle better.

I keep waiting for BMW to change up again, because when they went with the current body style, they lost that cool, aggressive design and stance that BMW has always had. Now, they look like any other Acura or Honda or Toyota on the road. Do they sell? Of course. But they lost that mystique they used to have when they went mainstream and went vanilla. Now every businessman in America has one. Woo-freaking-hoo.

It isn't the Ultimate Driving Machine anymore. It is the typical one.

And THAT is what sucks.

 

Miata, Mini, WRX, Evo, 5.0 Mustang, S2000, Z, Mazdaspeed 3, all make my heart race. All are inexpensive and lots of fun to drive. All are compromises in one way or another. Handle properly is a very open question. If you say it needs to be adjustable mid corner then any of these would qualify. If you say it has to oversteer then you are limiting your options, but even the front wheel drive cars can lift oversteer at times. My Mini was very keen to rotate and I loved that it made my heart race every time I drove it. That said if you want a pure sports car today and you want to buy something new and have only $30K to spend you just go out and buy a Miata. They have the market cornered, others have tried (Solstice I am talking about you) but they have not come close to the Miata in the fun per dollar category.

 

Let's hope the new MINI convertible can change that?

 

Guess I'm a bit on the fence with this one; like it for what it is but question weather it is 60 large.... :-0

Lets not forget too that the 2002 was not built as a sports car first and a family car second. It was a sedan that set four people plus the groceries and also performed very well indeed....

 

Given the option of spending that much on a 1series M or a new 2011 Mustang GT Premium. I'd take the car that is pretty much the even match of the M3 for $26,000 less. Yeah, the interior is Ford, but for $40,000 you can get pretty much every single option available for the Mustang and it laps courses like an M3.

The aftermarket for the 5.0 motor is going to be enormous and I'd wager, much more affordable than the BMW tuner market.

 

Have you driven one? Reason I ask is that the last time I drove one before our test drives a month ago was a 1991 GT with the 5.0. It was fast as snot and spun like a top if you weren't careful. But it "felt" fast... The new ones just didn't. I was very surprised as I figured after all those years, it would be light years ahead of where the used to be and was really disappointed that it wasn't.

I hate that as I keep having hope in an American car. They just keep falling short. :frown2:

 

The 2011 GT Premium with the Brembo Brakes package is nothing like the 1992 GT 5.0 Twin Turbo with NOS I used to drive.

2011 BMW M3 Coupe vs. 2011 Ford Mustang GT Comparison - Motor Trend

I didn't think it was possible for a Live Rear Axle car to be even remotely close to a $63,000 BMW around any track. Value for money, I'm impressed.

 

The first article showed the price @ 39,995 in British Pounds Sterling so the rule of thumb is about 1.5 US Dollars to the British Pound. Hence about $60k US.

 

That can't be the price they're going to release it at, the M3 with competition package is under $63k.

I read the early pricing details and saw that BPS price too and thought wtf?

 

Ok, now I see where the $60k comes from, but that's not the way pricing in the states works for imported european cars. Several threads on 1addicts, online magazines, and several independent sources have predicted pricing around mid $40's in the US. The US gets a much better deal than the UK.:cornut:

 

Wouldn't an educated guess be price of a 135i + $6-7k on top for the M package?

 

I think in some ways it comes back to how you define your "ultimate driving machine"

I find my self as I am getting older appreciating the cars that are both fast and comfy. The 2006 AMG E55 is still a favorite in this category for me. It's pretty damn peppy and yet is so comfy for long rides. Then you switch on the active seating and as you get into the curves it gently hugs you and holds you in place.

I was looking to buy a pretty loaded 135 before I went back to school. I really enjoyed the mix of fun and daily comfort. Compared to that the 1M is looking to be really what I wanted. It's still a fantastic daily driver, but still a blast when you wanna hit some corners and go fast.

My point is, for me, currently the "ultimate driving machine" is two fold. One for daily use and comfort, but still a fun steed when I want to wood it and throw her around. BMW's sheer driving pleasure isn't just about going fast and being at the limits, it's about enjoying the drive all the time. From cruising on back country roads to driving into downtown for a night at the theater.

If I wanted a track car or a true sports car (Lotus elise/arial atom/etc), I'd get just that. Let alone a super car.

Define sports car... to me a few main points, 2 seats, LOW to the ground, Not just ride height but the car it's self, probably a pretty stiff ride not so great for every situation, Little to no extras, noisy. etc.

By those standards BMW has never been a super car and in some ways not even a pure sports car. (for me the Z4 M coupe was the closest thing to pure sports car from BMW) Even the M1 or E30 M3 were very street oriented cars. It's luxury sport in many ways. The best of both worlds if you will, and for many, the ultimate driving machine.

 

Or........

You could get a 135i, put the Helix Big Turbo Kit, Stepped Core Intercooler, and Proprietary GIAC tune in it, and have a 420 hp 1M eater for about $20k less. And yes, no check engine lights, perfect drivability.

 

Haha well, of course Eric! I'm still in the camp that it's not going to be 60k. However, I understand what you mean.

This is all a pipe dream right now anyway. As a student. I'm not spending my school loans on a car.

Besides, my 0-140 mph time from when I leave the airplane door is way more exhilarating.

 

Very irresponsible of you. And detremental to the German economy.