No More LSD? WTF?

I don't know the full reason why they deleted the LSD but I think it has something to do with the cost/savings the EDLC has over the LSD...programming is so much easier than actually having a solid mechanical piece...:rolleyes5:

 

The aftermarket will always address this.

 

True...very true

 

You can get a Phantom Grip for less than $400



Phantom Grip

 

Traditional LSDs

are slowly going the way of the Dodo. What will replace them is factory "torque vectoring" systems that are predictive in nature. The MINI eLDC isn't the best system out there, but it costs less to deploy and so that's what we'll get.

Also, I read somewhere that the take rate on the LSD was close to zero.... People who would go racing didn't buy the factory unit. People who didn't know why they'd need it just saved the $500, and that left very few actually ordering it.

Matt

 

Having destroyed a Phantom Grip on my VW and seeing others do it as well I wouldn't waste my money there.

 

Sorry to hear that?

I know this is not really the thread to explore such a question but it does have merit because of your experience with the PG. What did Phantom Grip attribute your failed unit was? Most VW's are relatively low HP engines compared to many other successful PG user race and street cars? My understanding talking directly with Phantom Grip is that some installed them in differentials worn or corresponding parts worn contrary to the install instruction warnings.Also in some cases installing the race springs on a street driven vehicle.The PG technical department is very informative with any installs and product concerns and complaints and makes public the negative reviews and failures as well as the positive ones.
There is not much to the PG unit itself so the defect concern is virtually non existent. 2 flat plates 4 springs. I have installed 3 including one in my own MINI without any issues.

Really it is just an alternative for some on a budget that would like to have a LSD or limited slip action differential in their MINI.



Here is the picture of mine I was installing.












And a little finishing touch of some RED to make the MINI go faster!

 

The VW's that had the PG installed were all over 200hp at the wheels, one had about 300 crank hp actually. The plates came apart in one example and in the others lost the locking ability after several autocross runs.
This was all about 7 years ago so PG may have improved their product now. However I preferred to save up longer and get a real LSD.

 

Yeah, and it's a budget running in the RED.

 

Ok I see the problem may not have actually been with the Phantom Grip but a question with the VW differential. The plates would not have come apart as described if installed as per the instructions because they are a solid unit and the only damage that can happen to them is if impacted by other parts not within operation design of either the differential or the PG . By your own description of the PG losing its holding ability would indicate the problem was in the vw differential parts and not the PG. A modified vw displacing over 200 whp is a mark up from stock perhaps an extra consideration and closer examination of the condition of the differential and its wear prior to the installation of the PG may have been helpful? For some a better understanding of what I am talking about visit the Phantom Grip website and see how the PG actually works. The simplicity precludes this type of failure in this thread from happening unless the other parts have some concern which seems to be what happened in this case? The simple design of the PG should not be confused with it not being a real locking differential devise. And I am sorry that you did not get good help and support when you had you issue with the PG.


I still think that if anyone is looking for a LSD the Phantom Grip is a really good consideration.

 

Mark

 

MotoringFile and White Roof Radio reported that LSD was discontinued because there were so very few orders. Gabe said the numbers were shockingly low, totaling in the hundreds annually and a typical dealer getting only a few all year.

 

So, has there be any data generated that compares the effectiveness of the E-dif to the discontinued MINI LSD or any other aftermarket LSD? It would seem that since the E-dif has the potential of being altered via a software change, this would offer some benefits on the track over a mechanical LSD?

 

Seems to me any benefit of electronic control on the track would be outweighed by increased brake wear and risk of brake fade. Maybe this is why the 2011 LCI (refresh) has ducts?

 

I think

the potential is there, but like the traction control on our cars, it doesn't get the programming sophistication that is possible. Look at how DSC evolved into DTC (more tail wag before intervention). Our eDiffs were added without significant concern to brake heating (as referenced above) and now that's being addressed, who knows to what effect... Time will tell.

Anyway, the eDiff can take steering angle into account, mech can't. As to whether the programmers will use the data they have available optimally... Probably not, but that may change with time.

There was that ProDrive car that Top Gear ran, and going from mechanical LSD operation to "torque vectoring" differential control improved skid pad performance greatly. I drove a 2010 MDX with the technology, and it make the land-tank turn much more easily by putting the torque to the outside wheels in turns under power, helping rotation. This is the future for sure....

Matt

 

Didn't Clarkson blow chunks with the ProDrive car???
I'd say the E-Dif is effective