Ok, post track inspection and maintenance finally complete with the following results: Rear: XP8 Pads: looked fine, no real glazing Rotors: very good condition Bleeding: fluid was clear and light colored with no air bubbles Front: Hub bearings: feel good, feel smooth with no slop at all XP10 pads: some glazing, will need to roughen them up for next use Bleeding: fluid was clear and light colored with minimal bubbles if any Rotors: not so nice, no deep grooves but there are some areas of pitting, not very deep at all but definitely indentations as opposed to something protruding from the surface, like a smeared pad for example. Anyway, here are a couple of pics, and given this, I decided to just swap them out with my spares. they are actually still well within the 20.4 mm min thickness spec so I may take them to a machine shop to see if they can be turned. The pitting is in the first third of the rotor surface from the hat. Also notice my used to be pretty red JCW calipers, not so red anymore. The heat has kind of taken it's toll and is scorching them pretty good. This is the other side, the pitting is more in the center of the rotor surface and may be a little deeper here. Getting them turned is only $10 each so it is worth a shot. I am not 100% confident that the rotors were the root of the problem, but I have identified nothing else to this point. Maybe it is time to consider brake ducts!
I have been running Way's brake ducts for two years on the track coupled with TSW's Big Brake Kit. No issues. I now brake later than most folks on the track. One of my students has the JCW setup on the front and does pretty well with it, but I have always thought the single (large) piston setup was overloaded. This was on an R53 and maybe the setup has changed. Anyway, I feel much more confident with 4 pistons up-front.
Seems like pretty safe advice. As mentioned I have the 1st Gen JCW brakes, the 2nd Gen JCW brakes are much more beefy, and I believe it is also a 2 piston per wheel setup.
Those XP10's and rotors look like they may have overheated to me... pretty much like mine did after I roasted them. Do the pads have any crumbling around the edges? Is the orange paint pretty much burned off the backing plates? I'm running XP12's on the front now... I think that's the way to go...
Yes, I would say that 'roasted' is an accurate description. My XP10s came with black paint, from what I understand they can come with many different colors, depending on what they had in the paint gun that day. Not that it matter cause today they do not have a spec of paint on them. They still have some ash that used to be paint though. No crumbling around the edges, but I do have some glazing, and so need to rough them back up as mentioned. Also, they are closer to the end of their life than the beginning anyway.
Wow, looks like you had some hot pads there.:yikes: You might want to inspect the rubber piston seals to see if they have any heat damage (if they still exist).
Single piston as evident by the impression on the back of the inside pad. Multi pistons are cool, but a self centering floating caliper like OEM has benefits too. Attempt to locate a shop that can Blanchard grind the rotors before settling on machined turning. BTW, Performance Friction now carries pads for the MINI, and Cobalt has a serious race pad.
You didn't say how close you were to the 20.4 mm min on the rotor thickness. Blanchard grinding or machine turning is going to remove material thickness in the trueing process. You don't want to throw money at the discs if they are close to their limit.
Yes, and from what I what saw when you were showing them off, those PFs are pretty damn sweet rotors too.
Each front rotor has about 21.5 mm remaining, so I am thinking I should give them a try at my local machine shop for $10 each.
Let's reanalyze this. Min. = 20.4 mm - 21.5 mm remaining = 1.10 mm life left. The thickness comparison of a typical credit card is .762 mm thick. So depending on how much is taken off both sides of the discs, there might not be much left for your track enjoyment. You might be doing a lot of work just to be replacing the discs in short order? But then again you will only be out $20.00.
Agree, there may not be much useful life remaining after the resurface. That is why I consider getting them resurfaced as 'taking a shot'. In the meantime, I will happily use my spares, which also measure at around 21.5mm, but yet have an almost perfect surface to them.
Those pads look pretty much like my XP10's did after I drove the hell outta them for one hard track day. I sent pics to CT and they said "those pads have been SEVERELY overheated". I sent them back and they ground them down to the "good" material for me at no charge. In the pics, it DOES look to me like there is some crumbling around the edges in some locations - they don't look like clean, sharp edges all the way around - looks like some little chunks are missing. And they are severely glazed. Now, mine were OEM R53 calipers at the time. I later upgraded to the R56 MCS (poor man's JCW) calipers, and bought XP12's this time around. Too early to tell if that will solve all issues, as my only track day this season was in the rain... but others I know have had good success with the XP12's after their XP10's failed them.
Thanks for the input on the XP12s, that just might need to be my next pad selection. And yeah, my XP10s have definitely experienced some extreme heat.
I switched to XP12's for this year--I haven't run them yet though. I've run XP10's, which I really liked, Poly B's, Raybestos 43's, and out of all of those I like the XP10's the best--but it's a personal preference, the other pads are cheaper, and others swear by them. I also put in Way's brake ducts this spring, and I'm having a thorough going over of my car by a racing mechanic (pick it up Monday), as I had some issues with the brakes as well. I thought it might be the master cylinder, but he wasn't sure on that--anyway, I know it'll be sorted out soon. Where I screwed up was not replacing the front control arm bushings--car gets really squirrelly under threshold braking--thought it may have to do with the brakes (warped a rotor, which certainly wasn't helping anything), but I THINK all that mush is from the bushings up front. I'm going to get them swapped out soon. I only have 17,000 miles, but those include a bunch of track days, including one high speed spin they still talk about at road america....
For me the XP10 selection was when I was still running with an instructor, but speeds and braking needs have increased since them. Maybe I just need to transition to more capable pads as a natural evolution. Still, I think I will install those brake ducts I have had on the back burner for months. I will be basically installing a Sneed Speed style that uses a soft duct hose directed straight on the rotor. I like the idea of the JCW challenge style as being more OEM-like, but I would not expect them to be as effective as the other.
Yeah, directing to the hub is theoretically the best way to go--but I have seen some posts with people having issues with the ducting on the Sneed kit (specifically rubbing requiring frequent replacement of the not so inexpensive tubing--perhaps it wasn't installed correctly), which is why I went with the Way kit in the end. I was slightly skeptical at first, but the Way kit, although not going directly at the hub, is HUGE--it's bringing a ton of air back there, and several people with much more experience than I swear by it. I think it'll be enough. If not, I'll rig up a hose from the end of the Way ducts to the hub. But looking at the size of the ducts, I don't thing that will be necessary.
If you are going to use a race pad, install and drive on the street for a couple weeks without bedding. An aggressive heat tolerant pad will remove old pad compound and a little of the rotor surface. Race pads require extra heat before they lay down material. It'll save you a few bucks on resurfacing.
Keith, don't know if that's directed at me or miniracer, but I'm starting over with a brand new set of rotors, Bobcats for the street, and pre-bedded XP12's for the track. They SAY you don't need to scrub off the rotors if you go from Bobcat's to XP's, as it's a similar pad compound. I may put the XP12's on like you said ahead of time just for peace of mind. I'm just glad I finally found someone fairly close by that knows what they're doing. The guys that installed the BDM for me in the first place didn't. I have a dangerously worn brake line (currently being replaced) to show for it, among other things. Turns out they installed them and checked them against my 16 inch everyday rims, despite the fact I gave them my 15 inch rims as well to check all clearances and tolerances. Didn't recognize it until I noticed the polyurethane coating was completely gone on one spot, and the line was just starting to fray, on my last day at the track last year...